Rugby World Cup

Originally posted by saffa73
Chester Williams never toured NZ in 1981! Where did you come up with that???

I know this because (a) he would have been just 11 years old having been born in 1970 (b) he made his test debut in 1993 vs Argentina, and (c) Errol Tobias is probably the player you are thinking of - he was the first player of colour to play for the Bok, and toured NZ in '81, he ...[text shortened]... only played the midweek games.

Just wanted to make sure you had your facts straight, mate.

Crowley is absolutely right, Williams did not break the colour barrier until much later. I thought '95. Crowley says '93.

Either way, the "Jackie Robinson" of SA rugby did not make his debut until long after the titular end of apartheid.

Originally posted by saffa73
I'd say you just called me an indiot in a public forum, or at least insinuated that I was. THough I can't comment on my previous allegation as I am awaiting feedback, I feel I have to tackle you on this one.

According to the TOS you may not - Post, email or otherwise make available any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, to ...[text shortened]... ess I have an apology from you in this forum shortly, I will send feedback over this as well.

Get a life. Now you're really acting like an idiot.

Originally posted by buffalobill
Get a life. Now you're really acting like an idiot.

Stay out of this, no one asked you for your opinion.

Originally posted by saffa73
I never ever said that any post you made was racist, Ragnorak. I have always referred to Crowley's comments as being the racist part ( he was 'replying' to a post of yours I know, but I have no problem with your part ).

Who says I falsely accused him? I accused him, that's all, the matter is awaiting feedback, simple as that.

Maybe the quoted post explains that your main problem is reading comprehension...

a) He wasn't replying to a post of mine.
b) The construct and intent of Red Night's post and Crowley's post were very similar, in that they compared two subgroups of blacks.

I'll ask my question again. It'd be great if you didn't duck it this time.

In what way is comparing one group of black people with another group of black people racist? For example, if I said that Irish whites have unhealthier livers than Australian whites, please explain to me exactly how my comment is racist.

I'll define "racism" for you, because maybe that's your problem: you don't know what racism means...
racism

1. The belief that members of one race are superior to members of other races
2. The belief that members of one ethnic group are superior to members of another ethnic group.
3. The belief that capability or behavior can be racially defined.
4. Aggression or discriminatory behavior towards members of a certain race or races.
5. Aggression or discriminatory behavior based upon differences in ethnicity.
6. Ethnically or culturally discriminatory behavior exhibited by members of the racial, ethnic, or cultural group dominant within a society.
7. The practice of asserting or assuming racially or ethnically defined cultural dominance.
8. The perpetuation of racial, ethnic, or cultural dominance of some groups over others.
9. Opportunity inequality resulting from preferential treatment towards others of a similar cultural background.
10. The act of using political, judicial, civil, and educational systems to oppress one based on their ethnicity.

Bearing this definition in mind, please explain how
" Yeah, they're (referring to Zim blacks) much slimmer for a start (than SA blacks)." is racist in any way?

I look forward to your public apology to Crowley.

D

Originally posted by saffa73
Stay out of this, no one asked you for your opinion.

When you start unnecessarily defaming somebody in a public forum, you invite public opinion.

Funny thing is that the majority of public opinion is the same as Bills. Only 2 guys with huge chips on their shoulders think differently.

D

Fair enough, point taken.

I have a chip on my shoulder?? Yes, because I'm Black and I'm sick to death of people making racist comments and jokes in public places. OK!

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Maybe the quoted post explains that your main problem is reading comprehension...

a) He wasn't replying to a post of mine.
b) The construct and intent of Red Night's post and Crowley's post were very similar, in that they compared two subgroups of blacks.

I'll ask my question again. It'd be great if you didn't duck it this time.

In what way is co ...[text shortened]... is racist in any way?

I look forward to your public apology to Crowley.

D

I cannot comment on this, I have told you, pennding the result of the feedback I sent Russ.

Originally posted by saffa73
Fair enough, point taken.

I have a chip on my shoulder?? Yes, because I'm Black and I'm sick to death of people making racist comments and jokes in public places. OK!

Fair enough.

Racism can't be a nice thing to experience, and hopefully it'll become a thing of the past. Bigots and racists should be ostracised from whatever community they are part of, irrespective of nationality, colour or creed.

But you may want to read about this guy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf

D

Originally posted by saffa73
Chester Williams never toured NZ in 1981! Where did you come up with that???

I know this because (a) he would have been just 11 years old having been born in 1970 (b) he made his test debut in 1993 vs Argentina, and (c) Errol Tobias is probably the player you are thinking of - he was the first player of colour to play for the Bok, and toured NZ in '81, he ...[text shortened]... only played the midweek games.

Just wanted to make sure you had your facts straight, mate.

You're right ..thanks Tobias in the '81 tour was called the token black.. Hundreds of thousands of NZers protested violently to try to stop the tour. A pitch invasion at Hamilton stopped a game and protesters threw tennis balls filled with broken glass onto the pitch.
We had a guy arrested for flying a light plane over Eden Park dropping flour bags on the pitch... one hit Gary Knight on the head and dropped him.

Had to check.. Chester was 11yrs in '81 haha
Avril Williams played in '84 against England.
Chester Played '93-2000 and was in the '95 cup squad.

I still want answers to the questions about racism in rugby which will effect next season and the next world cup the questions need answering.

Perhaps the personal arguments could go to the debates or general.. they don't need to be in the sports forum.

Originally posted by Tirau Dan
Recapping briefly ignoring recent arguments:

After the Cup it was reported widely (at least here in NZ) that SA Rugby was to have a Black quota imposed on future National rugby teams of up to ten players to squad or team.

That future teams would not be allowed to bear the name Springbok because of previous racist connotations associated with the nam ...[text shortened]... t needs resolution well before the next world cup and preferably before the next Tri Nations.

de-segragation is always difficult. It is almost impossible to undo centuries of oppression without positive action.

Forced de-segregation was very unpoplur in the US in the late 60's and 70's. But, I think history will say that it was a necessary evil.

As for the proposed changes in SA rugby...I have to say I'm not surprised. It seemed obvious to me that this sort of thing would happen after seeing the closing ceremonies.

The SA white players passing the cup around amongst themselves.

Finally, a tournament official taking the cup and handing it to one of the black players.

The black players passing the cup around amongst themselves.

The leaders of the country coming down and being greeted by the black players and ignored by the whites.

The prime minister being hoisted onto the shoulders of the Black players (mostly bench warmers) while the white players stood off to the side.

The game itself reminded me of old footage of baseball from the '50s. There may have been some black players on the field, but they weren't really part of the team. (Too bad too. I think the English black player could have run for 2 or 3 tries if only given the chance!)

Originally posted by saffa73
You calling me an idiot or implying that I was IS ( and there can be not doubt here ) ABUSIVE and DEFAMATORY.

Unless I have an apology from you in this forum shortly, I will send feedback over this as well.

Oh, I'm not implying anything.
I am calling you an idiot, plain and simple, because you keep on calling me a racist when you obviously don't understand either the joke or the definition of racism, even when it has been explained to you a few times in this thread.

You want an apology? Christ. You're the one misconstrued a harmless joke as racist and then started attacking me about it. If anyone needs to apologise it's you, buddy.
Anyway, here's something to help you look for an apology from me: http://tinyurl.com/yuc48z

Originally posted by Crowley
Oh, I'm not implying anything.
I am calling you an idiot, plain and simple, because you keep on calling me a racist when you obviously don't understand either the joke or the definition of racism, even when it has been explained to you a few times in this thread.

You want an apology? Christ. You're the one misconstrued a harmless joke as racist and the ...[text shortened]... Anyway, here's something to help you look for an apology from me: http://tinyurl.com/yuc48z

You will be accused of blasphemy with this post.

Originally posted by boarman
You will be accused of blasphemy with this post.

Probably 😞

Originally posted by Red Night
de-segragation is always difficult. It is almost impossible to undo centuries of oppression without positive action.

Forced de-segregation was very unpoplur in the US in the late 60's and 70's. But, I think history will say that it was a necessary evil.

As for the proposed changes in SA rugby...I have to say I'm not surprised. It seemed obvious t ...[text shortened]... I think the English black player could have run for 2 or 3 tries if only given the chance!)

I don't know what ceremony you saw, buddy. Are you sure it was the rugby world cup final? The one with the odd shaped ball?

As always your posts serve no purpose but to rile people up.
Too bad, because you seem like a reasonably intelligent person, when not posting this type of BS.

Sure, rugby in South Africa may not be where some people want it, transformation-wise, but the picture you paint only exists in your own deluded, brain.
Me, I don't care. As I said before: The team that brought the cup back home were full of South Africans. I couldn't care less what colour their skins are, as long as they keep on wining.

PS. South Africa does not have a prime minister.

Originally posted by Crowley
I don't know what ceremony you saw, buddy. Are you sure it was the rugby world cup final? The one with the odd shaped ball?

As always your posts serve no purpose but to rile people up.
Too bad, because you seem like a reasonably intelligent person, when not posting this type of BS.

Sure, rugby in South Africa may not be where some people want it, tra ...[text shortened]... kins are, as long as they keep on wining.

PS. South Africa does not have a prime minister.

For once crowley we actually have something in common.