Tournament Longevity-COMPLAINT

Originally posted by Gary Thomas
I ONLY POSTED AS I KNEW EXACTLY THE RESPONSE THE ORIGINAL POSTER WOULD GET AND I THINK THOSE WHO THINK AS I DO NEED TO KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE WHO AGREE WITH THEM!!

How often do you think somebody should be made to move in a 21 day timeout tournament?

Is it not completely ridiculous to stipulate as a fellow competitor that in 21 day tournaments, you MUST move at least every 5 days?

In a 1 hr 45 OTB game, would you claim the win if your opponent had used up 15 minutes of his time?

D

Originally posted by Gary Thomas
"Originally posted by ADAMFORALL" ---Text shortened---
3. Heng is playing within the rules and doing nothing wrong.

Do you really believe that a player who enters a tournament should treat these games any differently from his other games?
OF COURSE I DO!
What the difference between a private game and a tournament game? There is none, you have ag ...[text shortened]... K AS I DO NEED TO KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE WHO AGREE WITH THEM!!

WOW you really are messed up over this issue.

All games on the site are equally valid.

Just because I enter a tournament does not mean I have to give these games preference.

What is the difference between me entering a tournament and issuing 19 open invites. Absolutely NONE.

I owe the same duty of attention to my games regardless of it being an Open Invite, tournament or clan game.

The sooner you accept that all games on the site are equally important the better.

Maybe we should have a vote?

Originally posted by Gary Thomas

A PRIVATE GAME IS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN 2 PLAYERS! A TOURNAMENT OR A CLAN GAME IS A VENUE IN WHICH OTHER PLAYERS, SOMETIMES MANY OTHER PLAYERS, ARE DEPENDING ON YOU!! NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO GET AROUND IT THAT IS A SIGNIFIGANT DIFFERENCE!! AND I REITERATE THAT ANY PERSON WHO HOLDS UP 19 OR MORE PEOPLE FOR A MONTH OF THEIR TIME IS SELFISH, PERIOD!

Do you know that posting in captials in forums is considered to be shouting and pretty rude?

That aside, you are completely missing the point. If you sign up to a 21/21 tournament, you are accepting that you are entering in to a competition that might take a very long time to resolve. People are entitled to use up all of their 21 days before they make a move, whether you think that is "holding up" the group, or not. Incidentally, it will only hold up the group for as long as it is possible for that person to win mathematically, but that's by-the-by.

I would take the counter-position and say that attempting to bully someone into moving in a game in which they are entitled by the terms of that game to which you agreed at its outset is more selfish than playing to those rules. Furthermore - if I were the vindictive type - if I found, for example, that you were accusing me of such behaviour, I may be inclined to treat our games specially, and move only on the last possible day.

Originally posted by mrmist
I would take the counter-position and say that attempting to bully someone into moving in a game in which they are entitled by the terms of that game to which you agreed at its outset is more selfish than playing to those rules. Furthermore - if I were the vindictive type - if I found, for example, that you were accusing me of such behaviour, I may be inclined to treat our games specially, and move only on the last possible day.

These are points that I have made - though I didn't say that I would do it.

Rather, I said that complaining in the forum encourages slower moving.

And, Mr. Mist is absolutely correct that such complaining is bullying. It is attempting to coerce a player to move quicker than they may believe necessary or are required by the rules agreed upon.

Originally posted by mrmist
Do you know that posting in captials in forums is considered to be shouting and pretty rude?

That aside, you are completely missing the point. If you sign up to a 21/21 tournament, you are accepting that you are entering in to a competition that might take a very long time to resolve. People are entitled to use up all of their 21 days before they make a ...[text shortened]... iour, I may be inclined to treat our games specially, and move only on the last possible day.

Piling up on someone who disagrees does not make the argument of what seems the majority of posters (do not confuse with the majority of players) more valid.
I gave further thought to the issue and it seems clear to me that:

1. People who enter a 21/21 tournament do not know that they could be signing up for a many years long tournament (12.4 years taking it to the extreme with 3 rounds. Don't even ask about four rounds.) RHP should do well in adding next to the advertised tournaments, the minimum, maximum and average length of play from statistical history. As one poster mentioned, people's time is valuable. Like other posters, i entered a 21/21 tournament that does not progress because of a few slow players. I finished playing my game approx a year ago. I would not have entered if I had known that it could take several years.

2. However, holding up tournaments does not happen just in 21/21 tournaments. I participated a few months ago in a 3/14 tournament where a guy, who had no hope of winning, extended his agony for three months beyond the last remaining players. A considerate person would have given up pretty much after finding the lead unsurmountable. That's sportsmanship.

Rules do not replace common sense and sportsmanship. If 2 players are holding up the play of 62 for months, there is a problem there. If we cannot assume that players will behave in a gentlemanlike fashion, then there should separate tournaments for those willing to abide to a sportsmanship code and those who want to play games to the limits of the rules. Since I play for fun, for the pleasure of the game, I would only be interested in playing with considerate players.

I know that in chess it is customary to celebrate eclectic and eccentric behavior (many Chess masters are famous for that). But, give me a break. I am playing for fun and i bet most people (the ones who finished their games a couple months earlier than the outlier) would like to move on as well.

That aside, you are completely missing the point. If you sign up to a 21/21 tournament, you are accepting that you are entering in to a competition that might take a very long time to resolve. People are entitled to use up all of their 21 days before they make a move, whether you think that is "holding up" the group, or not. Incidentally, it will only hold up the group for as long as it is poss ...[text shortened]... iour, I may be inclined to treat our games specially, and move only on the last possible day.[/b]

Originally posted by mrmist
[b]Do you know that posting in captials in forums is considered to be shouting and pretty rude?
No, I didn't know that. I used caps to differentiate MY comments from the person from which I was quoting, and that is the only reason!

There will always be slow players for any number of reasons, and a few players who play more slowly when losing because they're concentrating more. Since this is a fact of life in "turn-based" chess, players need to develop strategies to deal with it. These are my strategies, others may have different ones:

~Enter no new tournaments if I have more than 30 unresolved tournament games (this includes games not yet started).
~Enter no new tournaments longer than 3/7, and preferably only 1/0.
~Enter only banded tournaments (low-rated players tend to play faster).
~Always sort MyGames with most recent move at the top. Ignore anything which is near the end of the list.
~If a new tournament round starts, check who is in it with you. If you're not happy with your opponents, resign immediately and it won't affect your rating. There's always another tournament.
~If there aren't enough short-timeframe tournaments, send feedback specifying 1/3 or whatever. I've done this twice and both times got exactly what I asked for.
~It's a game. Enjoy it. Life's too short for any other approach. Have fun. 🙂

Originally posted by jalajale
1. People who enter a 21/21 tournament do not know that they could be signing up for a many years long tournament...

2. However, holding up tournaments does not happen just in 21/21 tournaments. I participated a few months ago in a 3/14 tournament where a guy, who had no hope of winning, extended his agony for three months beyond the last remaining playe ...[text shortened]... finished their games a couple months earlier than the outlier) would like to move on as well.

People who enter a 21/21 tournament must surely know that they are not entering a fast-paced matchup. If they do not, then they lack common sense to a degree. At best, I think you could "expect" a move in such a game perhaps once a week, if you were wanting a fairly speedy 21/ game. That would give you a single game that lasted 2/3rds of a year or so, assuming you reacted to the moves immediately. Logic says that a tournament of such games is destined to last a long time.

... participated a few months ago in a 3/14 tournament where a guy, who had no hope of winning, extended his agony for three months beyond the last remaining players

If he had no mathematical hope of progressing, then the tourny group was decided and would have progressed. If he still had mathematical chances of winning, then he still had "hope" and was entitled to keep moving. In no way should he have to be subject to people calling him out to resign.

Of course you and I both play for fun, but what you are talking about here is a group of members - since non-subs cannot take part in most of the tournies - who are not being "held up" in any way, because they can easily take on more games should their whim lie in that direction. To demand or expect others to move faster for your own fun is, I suggest, unsportsmanlike.

Originally posted by jalajale

2. However, holding up tournaments does not happen just in 21/21 tournaments. I participated a few months ago in a 3/14 tournament where a guy, who had no hope of winning, extended his agony for three months beyond the last remaining players. A considerate person would have given up pretty much after finding the lead unsurmountable. That's sportsmanship.

Rules do not replace common sense and sportsmanship. .

An example Tournament 3304

When do you decide its right to end participation when you are faced with a player of the quality you had in the above tournament?

Do you say it was not worth starting the games as you had no chance of winning?

Do you say well I can't progress further now so I should just resign?

Or do you rightly play the game to the end to learn something from a top player?

Many of the games in that tournament are finished, several are 30+ moves in and two are only 12 moves and 14 moves in.

At present its your move and in a 3/7 tournament you have only 1 hour and 5 minutes to move (plus timebank) as at this moment.

If you can fully utilise your three days per move in this tournament why can someone utilise their 21 days in a 21/21 tournament?

Or is it a case of its OK for me but not for others? 😲

Once a round is mathematically over the tournament will progress to the next round, regardless of whether all the previous round games are over or not. If the tournament is not progressed, then the players still playing have a chance of winning through into the next round and should be allowed to do so at their pace.

Originally posted by goofball343
Sorry about that. I hope you understand that I was only joking with you.

Really?? I never would have guessed!

When I play a rated chess game either OTB, RHP, ICC, I play using a clock of some sort.

If I play G/90...it is understood that when I run out of time I lose. It is also understood that I can use 89 minutes and 59 seconds for the first move if I want.

Playing where I am forced to move within every 10 minutes is ridiculous. What if I have to go to the bathroom. What if the next move is so important that I need to spend 30 minutes on it?

My opponent can complain to his friends that I didnt move fast...but the Tournament Director cannot do anything.

On RHP we play with a Time-Delay. I have found it very helpful as there are times I may not be able to move for a week....for 1.5 weeks....It does not happen but once or twice a year...but I agreed to the time.

If your opponent is obviously losing....well....when his time runs out you can claim a win. And then avoid the person if you wish. But don't complain to the world about having to wait an amount of time that when you started playing you agreed too.

Rec'd