@averagejoe1 said
Juror: “There has been no crime established. When you are presenting a case in the opening days, you should be trying to get our attention. I will submit to you that we do not ‘see where the crime is at.’ Where is the evidence of President Trump doing wrong?”

You fellers are getting ahead of your skis. There is no crime being shown. Think deep. You will see. Do you see ‘the crime’? You are all thinking like sonnyhouse.

See previous post.

@mott-the-hoople said
when was Trump convicted of violating Fed election law?

It is not necessary to show a prior conviction. What the prosecution has to show is intent to commit a further crime (such as tax fraud &/or campaign finance fraud) in having committed the first one (paying hush money and pretending it was a) a tax-deductible business expense and b) a campaign 'donation' ).

@greenpawn34 said
I'm with you mchill regarding these new fangled clocks. I get one of the kids
to set them at league matches etc and I have the instructions.
(you should be able to get a copy on the net )

The change in atmosphere at tournaments from the late 60's to early 2020's
(when I played) to today is very different.

In the olden days we would gather around a board in the ...[text shortened]... T.D. to organise,
they can do the draw at random because nobody can remember who they have played.

Speaking of the analysis room ...

I took part in the U.S. Open in Atlantic City during the Fischer-Spassky match. The two top seeds in the U.S. Open that year were Walter Browne (the ultimate victor) and Bent Larsen. After the day's games had finished in Atlantic City, Larsen would give a short presentation with commentary on whatever game was currently running in Iceland (moves relayed via fax). Browne would relax playing blitz backgammon with someone. The rest of the boards were full up with people analyzing and chattering away, often with four players playing blitz bug-house. Watching the good players analyze was an education in itself.

@averagejoe1 said
@AverageJoe1
THE crime.

Again, not ALL of alleged crimes of All cases. Obviously not my OP.

What's the crime in the so-called hush-money case? Falsifying financial records. Here's a summary from the indictment:

1. violated FECA's restrictions on corporate and individual contributions.

2. violated FECA through unlawful individual and corporate contributions by Cohen, Pecker, and AMI; and...by falsifying the records of other New York enterprises and mischaracterizing the nature of the repayment for tax purposes.

3. violated New York tax law.

@averagejoe1 said
@kmax87
But, What is This crime? Should I rephrase?

Falsifying financial records. It’s a felony.

EDIT: copy-pasted from Marauder's thread on the case:


<<
NY Penal Law "§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree. A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof. Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony."

As to the object crimes, Bragg is basing the "intent to commit another crime" which elevates the charge from a misdemeanor 2nd Degree to a felony First Degree Falsifying business records, Bragg uses three theories any one of which the Judge found adequate to sustain the charges at this point (a fourth was rejected):

"(1) The People allege that Defendant "violated federal election laws because the payoffs to both McDougal and Daniels violated FECA's restrictions on corporate and individual contributions." People's (Apposition pg. 24 The People presented evidence to the Grand Jury that Cohen pled guilty in the Southern District of New York to violating FECA for engaging in the very acts which are at issue here, i.e. making unlawful campaign contributions and that he did so at the direction of, and in coordination with, "a candidate for federal office," later identified as Donald J. Trump - the Defendant herein.
(2) Under the second theory, the People allege that Defendant intended to violate N.Y. Election Law § 17 152 by conspiring to "promote the election of any person to a public office...by entering a scheme specifically for purposes of influencing the 2016 presidential election; and that they did so by 'unlawfull means,' including by violating FECA through the unlaw individual and corporate contributions by Cohen. Pecker, and AMI; and...by falsifying the records of other New York enterprises and mischaracterizing the. nature of the repayment for tax purposes." People's Opposition at pg. 25.
(3) Under die [sic] third theory, the People allege that the Defendant intended to violate New York fax [sic] Law §§ 1801(a)(3) and 1802. this theory is premised on evidence introduced to the Grand Jury that when Cohen was reimbursed for the $1.30,000 payment he made to Daniels, the amount he received was "grossed up" to compensate him for taxes he would have to pay on the reimbursement."

"The Court has considered the respective arguments of the parties and finds that the evidence presented to the Grand Jury for the first three theories was legally sufficient to support the intent to commit the "other crime" element of falsifying Business Records in the first Degree."

https://casetext.com/case/people-v-trump-20 pp. 13-14

>>


Now, what part of "felony" do you not understand? Two too many syllables?

@carnivorum said
So we agree that there is no scientific explanation what so ever for the existence of duons.

So it should be clear to everybody that the only rational explanation is intelligent design.

And there we have our Intelligent Designer.

We call Him "God".

It is really that simple.

It is really that simple.

Only to the simple-minded.

Just because we don't currently have an explanation for something, it does not follow that the only possible explanation is "God did it," and even if it did, it still would not follow that the 'god' who did it is identical with Yahweh much less that Yahweh is identical with an obstreperous Jew who got himself crucified in the Levant about 2,000 years ago. There isn't merely a gap in your reasoning; it's chasm wide enough for the USS Eisenhower carrier strike group to reverse course in.

@averagejoe1 said
What are we to be considering for making a decision? Influencing an election is not a crime. Fact from Avjoe.

Don’t mince words. Interfering in one is, and so is falsifying financial records pertaining to a campaign. I expect Marauder can cite chapter and verse.

@sonhouse said
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/27/us/tennessee-governor-signs-school-guns-bill/index.html#:~:text=Tennessee%20Gov.%20Bill%20Lee%20signed,to%20the%20General%20Assembly's%20website.

Yeah, that will stop crazed teenagers from killing kids, give guns to teachers who don't even know how to shoot. Or how about the scenario where some bad kids attack the teacher, steal the gun and ...[text shortened]... eh? Nice putting yet more guns right next to kids who may kill if they could get their hands on one.

Only in Amerika is this not considered insane.

@mchill said
But for me, I do not want answers anymore.

I understand, those answers can be painful. Biden puts experienced professionals in charge of government departments. Trump - Family members, TV show hosts, ex models and playmates (colorful, but not very effective!) So, I can understand why you don't want answers. 😲

We know where cronyism leads: straight to banana republic.

When he says “drain the swamp” what he means is: replace the civil service by his cronies ( people like Manafort, Stone, Flynn ). “Only the best”, remember that? It’s all spelled out under the name Project 2025.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/27/politics/trump-federal-workers-2nd-term-invs/index.html

@suzianne said
"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

Yup, that's the script.

@no1marauder said
"Pecker also revealed that his tabloid had never had a "catch-and-kill" agreement with Trump prior to his candidacy for president." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/top-3-takeaways-from-day-6-of-trump-s-hush-money-trial/ar-AA1nxddF

OUCH.

<<Conroy says Trump's comment that Pecker is "nice" is a message to other witnesses.
Prosecutor Chris Conroy also cites Donald Trump's comments at his event this morning where he spoke about tabloid publisher David Pecker, in which he said that Pecker was "nice."

"This is a message to Pecker. Be nice. It’s a message to others," Conroy says, adding the message to other witnesses is that Trump has a platform and will comment on their testimony.>>

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-04-25-24/h_53f857fdd1b34f89fe47660e967879b1



FYI:

"Be nice" is Trumpspeak. Translated into plain English it means: be 'nice' to Donald; if you're not 'nice' to Donald, Donald won't like you and Donald will screw you; being 'nice' means saying nothing that might get Donald upset or in trouble; saying anything that might get Donald upset or in trouble will make Donald not like you and your daughters; being 'nice' means never ever spilling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, because that will get Donald upset and in trouble and then he really really won't like you and Donald has many many very 'nice' friends standing back and standing by who will make your life miserable, if you're not 'nice'.

This message will also have been directed at Mark Meadows and 10 other defendants indicted in AZ.






The above clarification courtesy of the grammar guy.

@suzianne said
Or just abolish the electoral college completely.

Direct popular vote (one person, one vote) is more fair and equitable. Not counting my vote because the guy I voted for didn't get the majority in my state is just adding insult to injury.

Trump's people are pressuring NE to change how their electors vote. In most states, it's winner take all, but in NE, electors vote proportionately (some voted Biden, some voted Trump last time, same as the Cornhuskers themselves voted). Trump's people figured out that every EC vote counts, so they are pressuring NE to adopt the winner-take-all system. It's gerrymandering with a different name.

And yes, the EC should have been abolished a long time ago.

@no1marauder said
Pecker's testimony today didn't tell us anything we've haven't known for years, but it got into evidence that Trump was directly involved in scheming with Pecker and others for them to use funds to help his campaign far in excess of legally allowable limits. This bolsters two of the theories regarding the intent to commit another crime which elevates the falsification of ...[text shortened]... and kill" payments were to protect Trump's family rather than directly linked to the 2016 election.

"At least if he wins, I'll be pardoned for electoral fraud."


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/25/politics/video/sketch-artist-trump-hush-money-trial-elizabeth-williams-ebof-sot-digvid


Pecker cannot have not known what he was letting himself in for.

@pettytalk said
I see that living in the shed with Herman's goat has done you some good. A very impressive listing of who is who in the world of the spirit of true philosophy. Let us add Pythagoras to the list, and it will get us closer to the essence of the spirit of the Holy Ghost.

When the body is shed, only the spirit remains. Or if we want to scare the children, it's a ghost of a ...[text shortened]... he handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVSxWCosMM0

Pythagoras didn't fit nearly as well into the Christian scheme of things as Plato did. For two reasons, I suspect.

First, he maintained that there is intelligible order in the cosmos, permeating all phenomena, which he called Harmonia. It is nothing to do with any deity, it is utterly dis-personal, can be apprehended by reason alone, and is especially manifest in mathematical proportions (for example in musical chords). There isn't any 'nether world' for Pythagoras -- there is just this world, mathematically ordered. Plato, on the other hand, postulated a 'nether world' of perfect Forms, and it was easy for early Christian theologians to interpret this 'nether world' as the abode of God and his angels.

Second, Pythagoras mostly likely held Orphic ideas about the afterlife, whereby the psyche migrated to other beings (not necessarily humans). He reportedly recognized a former friend in the body of a dog, and a river was heard to speak to him (Christians would have denounced such things as necromancy, demonology, or witchcraft). That doesn't quite fit in with the Christian scheme of things, whereby the soul lives only once and is promoted/demoted to the 'nether world' forever.


And yes, Herman's goat is very well-read in classics.