@Rajk999 saidThe auto industry loans provided under the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) by the U.S. government, including those approved by the Obama administration for General Motors (GM) and Chrysler, were largely repaid. While not all of the initial investment was recovered, a significant portion, or 77.6% of the government's investment in GM, was ultimately returned, and both GM and Chrysler were sold to the public.
What a load of bull from a bunch of dramaqueens. You start off with .. Trump's move to have the state own significant percentages in public corporations is a copy of how the Chinese Communist Party operates. Then proceed to ramble on about the Chinese? Where is your analysis about what you think Trump is doing.
Trump bought 10% of Intel for about $9 Billion. No ...[text shortened]... conclusions are nonsensical, and its all caused by Trump hatred. Trump has made you people stupid.
Details of the Repayment
Bailout under TARP:
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The loans were part of the auto industry bailout initiated under President George W. Bush and continued under President Barack Obama, utilizing TARP funds.
GM's Repayment:
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The U.S. government's initial investment in GM was largely repaid, with Wikipedia reporting that the government recovered 77.6% of its investment.
Chrysler's Repayment:
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Chrysler also repaid its loans and was eventually sold to the public, Forbes reported in 2011 indicating a full repayment of its TARP loan by 2011.
Government Recovery:
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In total, the U.S. government recovered more than $12 billion in loans from both companies, making it one of the most successful bailout programs in U.S. history The Detroit News stated in 2016.
@Philokalia saidNo, it's Project 2025 -- consolidation of power among the kleptocrats.
MAGA-Communism coming?“It sounds crazy. It’s called ‘MAGA Communism,’ and the ‘communism’ thing means common wealth, common prosperity,” Haz tells one man, in a video he posted to his YouTube channel from the event. “We all come together: the workers striking at the railways, the MAGA industrial working class, the small farmers, we all unite with our power. We ...[text shortened]... ews, including appearances on OANN and Tucker Carlson Tonight.
https://archive.is/5uhst
@Phranny saidEven though, at a quick glance, you are 90% correct, that still had nought to do with socialism.
Trump's move to have the state own significant percentages in public corporations is a copy of how the Chinese Communist Party operates. There are thousands of privately owned corporations in China. In sectors of great importance, like AI, the Party will buy various levels of influence. Trump shuns Western democracies. Trump admires and tries to imitate authoritarian regimes. ...[text shortened]... h the state's industrial policy and ensuring national security, particularly regarding data control.
That’s fascism. Forcing companies to do the will of the elite, using the funds of the producing companies… and penalising anyone n disagreement..
@Phranny saidDo you mind posting the link for all that? I Googled and the GM loans appear to be a mass of confusion, and conflicting figures. Apparently GM used one loan to pay off another, then converted part of one into shares etc, owned by the US Govt, then the govt sold some of the shares. Finally GM issued a note for public consumption to take care of some balance ... its a mess. Companies do this when they want to hide the truth.
The auto industry loans provided under the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) by the U.S. government, including those approved by the Obama administration for General Motors (GM) and Chrysler, were largely repaid. While not all of the initial investment was recovered, a significant portion, or 77.6% of the government's investment in GM, was ultimately returned, and both GM ...[text shortened]... king it one of the most successful bailout programs in U.S. history The Detroit News stated in 2016.
@Rajk999 saidWhy would anyone prove argument to a fascist.
Do you mind posting the link for all that? I Googled and the GM loans appear to be a mass of confusion, and conflicting figures. Apparently GM used one loan to pay off another, then converted part of one into shares etc, owned by the US Govt, then the govt sold some of the shares. Finally GM issued a note for public consumption to take care of some balance ... its a mess. Companies do this when they want to hide the truth.
Surely all fascists should just be dragged out and shot. For humanity’s sake.
@Zahlanzi saidIn this case, isn't it an investment in the only competitive private company that mnaufactures chips which are vital to the economy and national defense..?
there is a slight difference in having the government control essential things like healthcare, education and fire fighters and deciding which private company comes on top.
Please remember, this policy is much bigger than Trump. It's going to last into the non-MAGA that comes after him. It's a strategic decision to basically own some of the most vital technological infrastructure for the country.
@Philokalia saidSomebody famously wrote about the allure of collective government ownership "controlling the means of production" as you describe.
In this case, isn't it an investment in the only competitive private company that mnaufactures chips which are vital to the economy and national defense..?
Please remember, this policy is much bigger than Trump. It's going to last into the non-MAGA that comes after him. It's a strategic decision to basically own some of the most vital technological infrastructure for the country.
Can't put my finger on who might've written that. It's right at the tip of my tongue.
Strategic control, though, as you put it. Maybe that's better.
@wildgrass saidWhat has been most interesting to me since 2016 is seeing Democrats and other moderate liberals come up with often comically criss-crossed ideas about economics.
Somebody famously wrote about the allure of collective government ownership "controlling the means of production" as you describe.
Can't put my finger on who might've written that. It's right at the tip of my tongue.
Strategic control, though, as you put it. Maybe that's better.
Say what you want about the normie cons and their fiscal conservatism, but at least there is routinely a lot of consistency.
@Philokalia saidIt's not the only company, not even the only competitive one and there isn't even a massive shortage yet that would warrant this.
In this case, isn't it an investment in the only competitive private company that mnaufactures chips which are vital to the economy and national defense..?
Please remember, this policy is much bigger than Trump. It's going to last into the non-MAGA that comes after him. It's a strategic decision to basically own some of the most vital technological infrastructure for the country.
I am not against nationalizing partially or completely some industry in extreme cases but this is not it and the hypocrisy of the "Capitalizm(love)!!! Socialism bad" crowd doing this is more than a bit... funky
@Philokalia said"What has been most interesting to me since 2016 is seeing Democrats and other moderate liberals come up with often comically criss-crossed ideas about economics. "
What has been most interesting to me since 2016 is seeing Democrats and other moderate liberals come up with often comically criss-crossed ideas about economics.
Say what you want about the normie cons and their fiscal conservatism, but at least there is routinely a lot of consistency.
There are enough to always vote with republicans on tax cuts for the rich but they are trying to pass some things that are popular and would help the poor. Is that what you mean about criss-crossed ideas?
"Say what you want about the normie cons and their fiscal conservatism, but at least there is routinely a lot of consistency."
I am very disappointed in you for this. What "fiscal conservatism"? Giving tax cuts to the rich and blowing up the deficit while in charge, blocking any popular measure while democrats are in charge and riling the population against them? The big beautiful bill (ugh) will add how many billions to the deficit? They are only "fiscal conservative" when the other guy is in charge.
@Zahlanzi saidFor my job, I had to endure a conference of people talking about Korean companies trying to position themselves to take advantage of AI, and during it one of the impressions that I got from a speaker was the absolute necessity of having your own national stacks...
It's not the only company, not even the only competitive one and there isn't even a massive shortage yet that would warrant this.
I am not against nationalizing partially or completely some industry in extreme cases but this is not it and the hypocrisy of the "Capitalizm(love)!!! Socialism bad" crowd doing this is more than a bit... funky
The nation, as a whole, needs to have compute - it needs to unlimited access to cutting edge chips, and it needs unlimited compute. It can't be buying compute from Amazon on the side, and it can't be relying on imported chips.
Following that logic, the US partly owning Intel, and basically having Taiwan relocate its production partially to the US (which is also perhaps in the long-term interests of Taiwan) all makes sense to me.
I think a better strategy for Trump detractors is to treat this as a necessary policy that is something anyone would've eventually done. But I suppose what makes this difficult for some people is they don't want to give credit to Trump.
@Zahlanzi saidFirst... MAGA is no longer fiscally conservative, so I do not think of it as cris-crossed.
"What has been most interesting to me since 2016 is seeing Democrats and other moderate liberals come up with often comically criss-crossed ideas about economics. "
There are enough to always vote with republicans on tax cuts for the rich but they are trying to pass some things that are popular and would help the poor. Is that what you mean about criss-crossed ideas?
"Sa ...[text shortened]... w many billions to the deficit? They are only "fiscal conservative" when the other guy is in charge.
SECOND... I suppose I should clarify that we are talking about the rhetorical consistency of normie cons. They can't help it that they are hawks who have to have a massive tax program to feed the Military Industrial Complex.
@Philokalia saidAn agenda they are implementing as of now. Word for word. A fascist agenda.
To me, this stuff has always been something of a conspiracy, you could say.
It's just making the plan for their agenda sound sinister by giving it a name and calling it a fascist conspiracy.
It's just an agenda.
It's not conspiratorial, it's not "omg they have aliens in Area 51" or "the government is run by reptilians".
It's happening right now.
Nobody is making Project 2025 sound sinister. It IS sinister.