Recent development:
"During a phone call with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, President Volodymyr Zelensky agreed that the Ukrainian delegation would meet with the Russian delegation without preconditions on the Ukrainian-Belarusian border, near the Pripyat River."
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent
@kevcvs57 saidThat is not true. The USSR invaded Afghanistan in the 70s.
Hey idiot the reason they didn’t have to undertake any military operations during the Cold War was precisely because Russia knew for a fact that any aggressive moves they made would bring NATO down in them like a ton of bricks.
People ask why now? There are many reasons, not least of which is Putin’s mental health, another big one is how good a job Trump did in convincing P ...[text shortened]... at this point in history. I just hope the Ukrainians and Russians can finish Putin off before 2024.
Ukraine is also not a NATO nation. Whose fault is that?
@no1marauder saidOne never knows what to believe in the fog of war, especially when we have to rely mostly on the mix of war reporting/propaganda of combatants, but it's hard to view all the reports and not conclude that the Russian invasion isn't going much worse than expected. As unpopular as the invasion is with the world in general, it seems likely that it will be extremely unpopular even with the Russian public if it bogs down.
Recent development:
"During a phone call with Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, President Volodymyr Zelensky agreed that the Ukrainian delegation would meet with the Russian delegation without preconditions on the Ukrainian-Belarusian border, near the Pripyat River."
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent
Some sort of face-saving peace where the Ukranians agree to a measure of autonomy in some of the eastern provinces in exchange for a withdrawal seems at least possible now.
As an aside, as WWII history aficionado, watching battles in places like Kharkov is truly eerie. Battles in Kharkov only happen in World War II history books and now they're happening in real life.
@metal-brain saidUkraine is not a NATO nation because we didn't want to offend the Russians for fear they'd do exactly what they've done.
That is not true. The USSR invaded Afghanistan in the 70s.
Ukraine is also not a NATO nation. Whose fault is that?
If Ukraine can earn themselves some sort of peace with basically no help from the West, they'll have earned themselves a spot in NATO, as far as I'm concerned.
@pawnpaw saidThe crazy thing is he announced it on Twitter in response to Mykhailo Fedorov SOS Tweet.
... and I believe Elon Musk has provided the Ukraine people access to his Starlink internet, free of charge...
https://www.businessinsider.co.za/elon-musk-says-starlink-satellite-internet-activated-ukraine-2022-2
Surreal.
In past wars, this sort of policy decision would be made by governments in secret after weeks of internal debate.
@sh76 saidIt's highly unlikely any sort of peace deal between the Ukraine and Russia would allow the former to become part of NATO.
Ukraine is not a NATO nation because we didn't want to offend the Russians for fear they'd do exactly what they've done.
If Ukraine can earn themselves some sort of peace with basically no help from the West, they'll have earned themselves a spot in NATO, as far as I'm concerned.
@sh76 saidIt's hard to say; the invasion started only three days ago and the Pentagon is saying that only in the last day or so have the Russians deployed more than half of the troops they had amassed on Ukraine's border.
One never knows what to believe in the fog of war, especially when we have to rely mostly on the mix of war reporting/propaganda of combatants, but it's hard to view all the reports and not conclude that the Russian invasion isn't going much worse than expected. As unpopular as the invasion is with the world in general, it seems likely that it will be extremely unpopular even wi ...[text shortened]... Battles in Kharkov only happen in World War II history books and now they're happening in real life.
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@sh76 saidHogwash!
Ukraine is not a NATO nation because we didn't want to offend the Russians for fear they'd do exactly what they've done.
If Ukraine can earn themselves some sort of peace with basically no help from the West, they'll have earned themselves a spot in NATO, as far as I'm concerned.
Ukraine is under consideration for membership.
https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/02/25/five_facts_on_nato_expansion_818551.html
If they didn't want to offend the Russians they would not have put Ukraine under consideration for membership. If anything Russia had to make sure they invaded before Ukraine was accepted for NATO membership.
Who told you that bunk?
Ukraine's (apparent) official Twitter account (it has the blue checkmark, meaning at least the people at Twitter think it's legit) responded:
"thanx, appreciate it"
This is truly a Gen Z war. Instead of top-secret international diplomacy, the combatants can't even be bothered to write out the whole words.
@metal-brain saidIf that triggered the invasion, it should have been done in 2008 when NATO declared at the Bucharest Summit:
Hogwash!
Ukraine is under consideration for membership.
https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/02/25/five_facts_on_nato_expansion_818551.html
If they didn't want to offend the Russians they would not have put Ukraine under consideration for membership. If anything Russia had to make sure they invaded before Ukraine was accepted for NATO membership.
Who told you that bunk?
"23. NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. "
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_8443.htm
@metal-brain saidIt's been 18 years since the Baltic states became NATO members. If you think Ukraine has been left out for any reason other than hesitancy to offend Russia, then explain what other reason there could possibly be.
Hogwash!
Ukraine is under consideration for membership.
https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/02/25/five_facts_on_nato_expansion_818551.html
If they didn't want to offend the Russians they would not have put Ukraine under consideration for membership. If anything Russia had to make sure they invaded before Ukraine was accepted for NATO membership.
Who told you that bunk?
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
- Moves
- 251103
@pawnpaw saidYeah, I was pleased to see Elon,
... and I believe Elon Musk has provided the Ukraine people access to his Starlink internet, free of charge...
https://www.businessinsider.co.za/elon-musk-says-starlink-satellite-internet-activated-ukraine-2022-2
stepping up to the plate/
@sh76 saidWhat is your source of information?
It's been 18 years since the Baltic states became NATO members. If you think Ukraine has been left out for any reason other than hesitancy to offend Russia, then explain what other reason there could possibly be.
NATO expanding into Baltic states was a broken promise to Russia that NATO would not expand.