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@no1marauder said...yet.
About to get messy though perhaps not as messy as the invasion of all of Ukraine that has been feared.
@athousandyoung saidI think this is quite an important point. Someone early in this thread referred to a "land grab", but what Russia is doing in Donetsk and Luhansk is more like a "population grab".
He’s protecting ethnic Russians in a bordering unaligned nation. There’s no reason to believe Russia will push into EU or NATO territory.
The Tsars used to see themselves as protectors of Orthodox Christians throughout Europe. Putin now sees himself as protector of ethnic Russians throughout Europe. The unrecognised states that have emerged under Russian patronage since the fall of the Soviet Union are either places with a concentration of ethnic Russians who had ended up outside the Russian Federation after independence (Transnistria, now Donetsk / Luhansk; and the annexation of Crimea followed the same logic) or places where pro-Russian ethnic minority populations exist in regions within anti-Russian former Soviet states (Abhazia and South Ossetia). Needless to say, there's plenty of opportunism and hypocrisy here, but there is a somewhat unsavoury nationalistic streak at the edges of Ukrainian politics, and it's surely not impossible to imagine how a Russian patriot could convince himself that Russians in Ukraine are vulnerable.
The part of the problem that is about territory: Ukraine is flat, until you reach the Carpathians. An anti-Russian regime in Kiev makes Russia vulnerable in the event of a conventional war. Again, it shouldn't really be that difficult to grasp why Moscow feels it has a vested interest in keeping a friendly regime in Kiev (and in Minsk too).
None of this, I should add, is to endorse what Putin is doing.
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@teinosuke saidBetter hope there are no orthodox Russians in your hood then.
I think this is quite an important point. Someone early in this thread referred to a "land grab", but what Russia is doing in Donetsk and Luhansk is more like a "population grab".
The Tsars used to see themselves as protectors of Orthodox Christians throughout Europe. Putin now sees himself as protector of ethnic Russians throughout Europe. The unrecognised states that h ...[text shortened]... regime in Kiev (and in Minsk too).
None of this, I should add, is to endorse what Putin is doing.
It’s a land grab pure and simple and an obvious springboard for either further incursion or intensifying his campaign of destabilising Ukraine.
He has now claimed that the Ukraine is not a nation at all, I imagine he has a list of non nations in the region.
@no1marauder saidmaybe it wasnt a good idea to allow a stolen US election...biden is owned by russia and china...you libs cheer him on tho dont you? wait for china to make their move...Iran will soon be fully nuclear capable...rave on catshy t
"Zelenskyy, in comments before the conference, also questioned the West’s refusal to allow Ukraine to join NATO immediately."
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-russia-united-states-europe-black-sea-a4e14d1b12c119c81d07dd3876cb057b
Maybe it wasn't the best idea for the Ukrainians to elect a comedian to their Presidency.
@athousandyoung saidYeah of course he is mate 😉
He’s protecting ethnic Russians in a bordering unaligned nation. There’s no reason to believe Russia will push into EU or NATO territory.
That’ll be why he isn’t prepared to let Ukraine join the EU I expect because that’s an existential threat to orthodox Russians everywhere obviously 🙄
@athousandyoung saidYou think that if nobody stops him from imposing his will on Ukraine, he won't start similar agitation in the Baltics at some point soon?
He’s protecting ethnic Russians in a bordering unaligned nation. There’s no reason to believe Russia will push into EU or NATO territory.
@teinosuke saidThose same arguments can be made towards many NATO countries, especially Latvia.
I think this is quite an important point. Someone early in this thread referred to a "land grab", but what Russia is doing in Donetsk and Luhansk is more like a "population grab".
The Tsars used to see themselves as protectors of Orthodox Christians throughout Europe. Putin now sees himself as protector of ethnic Russians throughout Europe. The unrecognised states that h ...[text shortened]... regime in Kiev (and in Minsk too).
None of this, I should add, is to endorse what Putin is doing.
As far as Ukraine being flat, you need to go through Moldova and a large stretch of Romania before you get to the Carpathians. Why should Putin stop at Kiev and Minsk?
Frankly, I'm not sure why the Kiev government would be interested in hanging onto the separatist eastern provinces. By releasing those populations, you ensure popular support for the pro-west government by taking those populations out of the voting picture. Plus, you further remove any plausible justification for a march on Kiev.
Of course, the West has an interest in stopping Putin to prevent the same from happening in many former USSR republics and even other Eastern Bloc countries, but if I'm Zelensky, I'm not worrying about that. My neck comes first.
@no1marauder saidEver been to Brighton Beach?
And then pretty soon the Russkies will be marching down Main St. USA!
They already are.
@no1marauder saidI’ve phoned Kiev and passed on your analysis. They said
Apparently the West has decided to treat Moscow's recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk independence as tantamount to a full scale invasion of Ukraine.
This is crazy political theater.
“phew, cheers No1 we were getting a bit worried there”
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@no1marauder saidThey ordered their military to enter areas that are unquestionably right now within the Ukrainian borders. Possibly not "full scale," but how is that not an invasion?
Apparently the West has decided to treat Moscow's recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk independence as tantamount to a full scale invasion of Ukraine.
This is crazy political theater.
