@no1marauder saidWell, that’s a bucket full of bad.
If the reports in this article are true, it seems like Russian forces are entering the country from multiple sides and bombing and shelling cities, so a limited operation only in the Donbass doesn't look like it's in the cards. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/23/europe/russia-ukraine-putin-military-operation-donbas-intl-hnk/index.html
https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/no-to-war-in-ukraine-as-russia-launches-invasion/
A good summary of the left-wing position on this debacle.
Socialists should oppose the military offensive and demand that president Vladimir Putin withdraws all his forces from Ukraine immediately. We must also oppose any Nato escalation of the conflict. Nato forces should immediately withdraw from eastern Europe.
The invasion began at 5am after Putin made a chilling speech, with threats of a brutal war and reactionary appeals to Greater Russian Chauvinism.
In the face of the Russian invasion, US and British politicians claim that they’re standing up for Ukrainian democracy or Ukraine’s right to self-determination. US president Joe Biden denounced “this unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces”.
Tory prime minister Boris Johnson said Putin had “chosen a path of bloodshed and destruction” and promised that “the UK and our allies will respond decisively”.
But the bloodshed and destruction have been created by the US and Nato. Their criticism of Putin is gross hypocrisy from the same powers that have launched “unprovoked and unjustified attacks” to assert their imperialist interests across the world. They are responsible for devastating wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and support Israeli settler-colonialism against the Palestinian people.
The conflict in Ukraine flows from imperialist rivalry between the West and Russia over Ukraine. And ordinary Ukrainians are—for both sides—just pawns in their imperial game.
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@shavixmir saidOne you asked for. You should be too ashamed of your traiterous behaviour to post.
Well, that’s a bucket full of bad.
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@kevcvs57 saidAll of them, if necessary.
The Taliban lived in the mountains and struck in the valleys, I cannot see any serious opposition to Russian arms if the major cities fall. Ukraines survival depends on how many civilians Putin is prepared to kill and maim.
@shallow-blue saidSuck my anus you right-wing anus sucker.
One you asked for. You should be too ashamed of your traiterous behaviour to post.
I did ask for no such thing.
You're just a right-wing apologist, a NATO rimmer, if you will. You'll accept everything and anything they say.
My opinion on the matter still stands: If NATO keeps expanding and encircling Russia, this is what you'll get.
And that does not mean I agree with Putin. It does not mean I condone an invasion. And sure as F does not mean that I want the civilians in Ukraine to suffer.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Sucking Biden and Boris' teet like this.
"Oh, agree with the West, because then it's all alright."
As the weapons deals flow. As the US invades any bloody country it bloody well likes.
There is something seriously wrong with you. Get some FFing therapy.
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@shavixmir saidThis is a good point. We can't expect countries to sit quietly by while forces specifically made to counter them expand.
If NATO keeps expanding and encircling Russia, this is what you'll get.
It's much like the Six Day War or US-South Korean drills near the DMZ. You can blame the attacker all you want, but these are still antagonistic acts.
Though just to be clear, Russia is still wrong to invade. I'm just saying I can understand what prompted it.
@vivify saidAny country invading another is wrong.
This is a good point. We can't expect countries to sit quietly by while forces specifically made to counter them expand.
It's much like the Six Day War or US-South Korean drills near the DMZ. You can blame the attacker all you want, but these are still antagonistic acts.
Though just to be clear, Russia is still wrong to invade. I'm just saying I can understand what prompted it.
@shavixmir saidYes, you made that clear in your post. I was just reiterating that for anyone who reads mine.
Any country invading another is wrong.
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@shavixmir saidShav, I'm surprised with your view.
https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/no-to-war-in-ukraine-as-russia-launches-invasion/
A good summary of the left-wing position on this debacle.
Socialists should oppose the military offensive and demand that president Vladimir Putin withdraws all his forces from Ukraine immediately. We must also oppose any Nato escalation of the conflict. Nato forces should immediatel ...[text shortened]... d Russia over Ukraine. And ordinary Ukrainians are—for both sides—just pawns in their imperial game.
This is a 'WHATABOUT' posting.
''Yeah, sure Hitler invaded Poland so,
it's only fair for Poland to invade Germany.''
I do, however, get your point about the
birds 'coming home to roost.'
My country is probably the biggest neo-colonial
offender during the last 1/2 century.
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@shavixmir saidWell, it doesn't stop anything. I mean, talking to people the way you did a few posts ago is also wrong, but ya still do it.
Any country invading another is wrong.
I'm getting quite educated on our debate forum however. Socialism seems to be widely embraced here, and is deeply associated with "the left." However, in my own country, leftist deny being socialists! Perhaps they fear they will "lose their position of power if only people could see through their socialist agenda" so they hide it.
Oh well, nobody here on this forum can change anything. Just keep on screeching and howling and barking like little dogs protected by screen doors, you Keyboard Commando you!
@jimm619 saidIt’s not a whatabout.
Shav, I'm surprised with your view.
This is a 'WHATABOUT' posting.
''Yeah, sure Hitler invaded Poland so,
it's only fair for Poland to invade Germany.''
I do, however, get your point about the
birds 'coming home to roost.'
My country is probably the biggest neo-colonial
offender during the last 1/2 century.
And it’s certainly not pro-Putin.
It points out the West is equally to blame for the circumstances. But that it is Putin who is attacking. And it calls for de-escalation.
You know that it’s ordinary folks who are going to paynin bloody for the imperialist nations to make money.
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@liljo saidAll 'Leftists are Socialists,' is as true
Well, it doesn't stop anything. I mean, talking to people the way you did a few posts ago is also wrong, but ya still do it.
I'm getting quite educated on our debate forum however. Socialism seems to be widely embraced here, and is deeply associated with "the left." However, in my own country, leftist deny being socialists! Perhaps they fear they will "lose their position o ...[text shortened]... ching and howling and barking like little dogs protected by screen doors, you Keyboard Commando you!
as saying, 'All Conservatives are Fascists.'
And, of course, even the less intelligent,
of the dozens who post are aware that name calling
does little in the way of advancing a point of view.
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@jimm619 saidNope. Name calling doesn't help anything, not ever, but since social media has become the norm, and people don't have to meet you face-to-face, it has apparently grown greatly in its popularity.
All 'Leftists are Socialists,' is as true
as saying, 'All Conservatives are Fascists.'
And, of course, even the less intelligent,
of the dozens who post are aware that name calling
does little in the way of advancing a point of view.
I visit multiple forums of all sorts, sports mostly, and motorcycle forums. There is no format I've ever visited that is as ignorantly quick to insult as RHP. Especially motorcycle forums...In several of those we are likely to meet up with each other periodically. It's amazing how "peacefully" we can state our differences of opinion there!
@liljo saidI wouldn't say it's "embraced".
.Socialism seems to be widely embraced here, and is deeply associated with "the left."
There's a lot of subtext on this forum, and socialism is a seen as a threat to capitalism by the American right. So any socialist ideas are attacked by them, like universal healthcare.
The American "left" on this forum only defends socialism since it's a proxy for concepts like single-payer healthcare, universal basic income, decent minimum wage, etc....all things the result in less money for the rich.
So it's not that the "left" on this forum are pro-socialism as much as the fact that they embrace some aspects of it that the right opposes.
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@shavixmir saidI'm not the one cheering on a right-wing autocrat's invasion of another nation while he denies its population's ethnicity. You are.
Suck my anus you right-wing anus sucker.
I did ask for no such thing.
You're just a right-wing apologist,
The rest of your post is as far beneath contempt as you and Putin are, and I shall not deign to respond to it.