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@sh76 saidYes it is a bit perplexing, they must know that they were already de facto independent Moscow administered areas and given that they are on Ukraines extreme eastern border I’d think they’d be glad to be rid of them Trojan horses, which is what Putin hoped they would be.
Frankly, I'm not sure why the Kiev government would be interested in hanging onto the separatist eastern provinces. By releasing those populations, you ensure popular support for the pro-west government by taking those populations out of the voting picture. Plus, you further remove any plausible justification for a march on Kiev.
Of course, the West has an interest in stoppin ...[text shortened]... other Eastern Bloc countries, but if I'm Zelensky, I'm not worrying about that. My neck comes first.
As it stands it’s a fail for Putin which is what convinces me he has bigger plans for the rest of Ukraine, maybe even expanding these republics much further west and also joining them up with the Crimea which would give Russia a vital land bridge to that strategic port.
@sh76 saidHave they definitely said they would enter areas not under de facto control of the separatists?
They ordered their military to enter areas that are unquestionably right now with the Ukrainian borders. Possibly not "full scale," but how is that not an invasion?
@kevcvs57 saidOr he might be looking for a face saving "win" since he knows a full scale invasion of Ukraine, even if successful, would lead to a nightmarish occupation for Russia.
Yes it is a bit perplexing, they must know that they were already de facto independent Moscow administered areas and given that they are on Ukraines extreme eastern border I’d think they’d be glad to be rid of them Trojan horses, which is what Putin hoped they would be.
As it stands it’s a fail for Putin which is what convinces me he has bigger plans for the rest of Ukrain ...[text shortened]... joining them up with the Crimea which would give Russia a vital land bridge to that strategic port.
@mott-the-hoople saidThis right wing fantasy belongs in another thread, but there are about 20,000 Border Patrol agents.
just curious what you call those freely coming across our southern border?
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@mott-the-hoople said'WHATABOUT'.....them, anyway?
just curious what you call those freely coming across our southern border?
@sh76 saidNo I don’t.
You think that if nobody stops him from imposing his will on Ukraine, he won't start similar agitation in the Baltics at some point soon?
@no1marauder said🤞I hope I’m being a paranoid alarmist I really do, and I also think he west has got the sanction level right, they are harsh but they’ve kept a lot of powder dry.
Or he might be looking for a face saving "win" since he knows a full scale invasion of Ukraine, even if successful, would lead to a nightmarish occupation for Russia.
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@no1marauder saidWe also have to consider Putin’s state of mind, he’s given some weird stream of consciousness lectures over this thing and apparently he’s been quite isolated during the covid thing.
Or he might be looking for a face saving "win" since he knows a full scale invasion of Ukraine, even if successful, would lead to a nightmarish occupation for Russia.
Someone in his position can get isolated and quirky at the best of times.
@no1marauder saidabout 2 million worth of fantasy…you idiots sure are hypocrites.
This right wing fantasy belongs in another thread, but there are about 20,000 Border Patrol agents.
@sh76 saidWell, yeah, so he probably won't do it in Latvia, since it's in NATO.
Those same arguments can be made towards many NATO countries, especially Latvia.
As far as Ukraine being flat, you need to go through Moldova and a large stretch of Romania before you get to the Carpathians. Why should Putin stop at Kiev and Minsk?
And that is also the reason why he will probably not try to do nasty things to Romania, since it's also in NATO.
Russia certainly has put diplomatic pressure on Moldova at times and has supported the breakaway region of Transnistria for the same reasons as it does Donetsk and Luhansk - that it's a predominantly Russian-speaking area, and that it's east of the Carpathians.
@sh76 saidWhy does the West have an interest in "prevent[ing] the same from happening in many former USSR republics and even other Eastern Bloc countries"? I mean, if you think it's in Kiev's interests to relinquish Donetsk and Luhansk, why do you think it's not in Tallinn's interests to relinquish Narva, or in Riga's interests to relinquish Daugavpils? Why is it in the West's interest to hold onto the ethnic Russian populations of those border regions?
Frankly, I'm not sure why the Kiev government would be interested in hanging onto the separatist eastern provinces. By releasing those populations, you ensure popular support for the pro-west government by taking those populations out of the voting picture. Plus, you further remove any plausible justification for a march on Kiev.
Of course, the West has an interest in stoppin ...[text shortened]... other Eastern Bloc countries, but if I'm Zelensky, I'm not worrying about that. My neck comes first.
@teinosuke saidThe West has regarded it in their "interest" to aggressively push NATO to the borders of Russia and to humble them by crushing their Slavic ally, Serbia.
Why does the West have an interest in "prevent[ing] the same from happening in many former USSR republics and even other Eastern Bloc countries"? I mean, if you think it's in Kiev's interests to relinquish Donetsk and Luhansk, why do you think it's not in Tallinn's interests to relinquish Narva, or in Riga's interests to relinquish Daugavpils? Why is it in the West's interest to hold onto the ethnic Russian populations of those border regions?
Besides the fact that I’d gladly give Poland and Romania back to Russia (one bottle of vodka and I’d be shot of those bastards quicker than I could down that bottle), using violence to bully your way in the world isn’t just a Russian thing.
The US has the worst track record since WW2. And the UK, France, Netherlands and Spain pre-WW2.
And you have to go back to 1200 or so to get other examples (Mongol empire, for example).
Yes. Putin is mad as a hatter. Not any crazier than bloody Bush, Raygun or trump though.
And Russia has a serious issue with NATO and its expansion. And its placing of weapons all along her borders.
Biden and Johnson want to look tough, because they’re lagging in their domestic poles. And since Afghanistan, the weapons lobby needs a new conflict to keep selling crap.
Russia is not going to invade Poland, Romania, NATO countries or bloody former Yugoslavia (nobody wants to go near that 💩-hole of hell).
As I’ve stated before: Russia wants a buffer between, what they see as, the crazy and expansionist West and themselves.
Look at history and ask yourself if they’re paranoid or just rather careful when it comes to the West and its “good intentions”.