Building the wall is not the Christian thing to do

Originally posted by checkbaiter
First of all, Jesus would not spit on anyone.

And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, “Do you see anything?”

(Mark 8:23)

Originally posted by Teinosuke
And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, “Do you see anything?”

(Mark 8:23)

Okay, if you want to be technical, but she meant in a demeaning way.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Zygote

Embryo

Fetus (before viability)

Thus, ZEFS

Then you are blind to truth, or simply ignore it.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Jesus as a devout Jew wouldn't think of the unborn as babies or nefesh as already shown.

Luke 1

Now [ac]at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And [ad]how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? 44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy. 45 And blessed is she who [ae]believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her [af]by the Lord.”

Originally posted by Eladar
Luke 1

Now [ac]at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, a ...[text shortened]... [ae]believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her [af]by the Lord.”

Do you think Jews back then didn't know that it was possible for ZEFs to move about in the womb? They did and that didn't change their belief that they were not nefesh.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Do you think Jews back then didn't know that it was possible for ZEFs to move about in the womb? They did and that didn't change their belief that they were not nefesh.

What makes you think they have no soul in the womb? What makes you think they didn't believe that 2000 years ago? Do you have a reference?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
What makes you think they have no soul in the womb? What makes you think they didn't believe that 2000 years ago? Do you have a reference?

I already gave it. It's on Page 2 according to Jewish law: "the act of birth changes the status of the fetus from a nonperson to a person (nefesh)". http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-beginning-of-life-in-judaism/

You do realize that at least a third and probably more than half of all zygotes "die" as a result of natural causes before birth? This creates a rather difficult theological problem if one A) Believes a soul enters a zygote at conception (which is an process, not an event): and B) One cannot enter Heaven without knowingly accepting Jesus as your Savior i.e. all those "souls" never had the ability to make such a choice.

EDIT: Apparently I overestimated a zygote's chance of survival until birth:

31% of all zygotes grow and survive to become living newborn babies.

https://quizlet.com/117565425/from-conception-to-birth-ch-2-flash-cards/

EDIT2: Interesting article here: http://reason.com/archives/2004/12/22/is-heaven-populated-chiefly-by

What's your take on this:

A fire breaks out in a fertility clinic and you have a choice: You can save a three-year-old child or a Petri dish containing 10 seven-day old embryos. Which do you choose to rescue?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Do you think Jews back then didn't know that it was possible for ZEFs to move about in the womb? They did and that didn't change their belief that they were not nefesh.

Most Jews back then rejected Christ. Why would you be an authority on this scripture? Why would most Jews?

You seem to believe you have some inside information.

Originally posted by Eladar
Most Jews back then rejected Christ. Why would you be an authority on this scripture? Why would most Jews?

You seem to believe you have some inside information.

You seem to forget that Jesus was a Jew. He followed all Jewish customs and holidays during his lifetime according to the Gospels. There are only a few instances where he varied from such customs and he explicitly explained those. He never said a word about abortion or criticized the Torah teaching that a ZEF was not a person - nefesh.

So anyone claiming they are following Jesus' teaching by opposing a women's right to terminate her pregnancy is not being truthful.

This "inside information" is readily available for anyone who has a Bible and can do a Google search.

As is the fact that if most of the so-called Christians posting in this thread's position on refugees had been adopted in Egypt about 2000 years ago, Jesus would have been sent back to Judea to be executed when he was an infant.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You seem to forget that Jesus was a Jew. He followed all Jewish customs and holidays during his lifetime according to the Gospels. There are only a few instances where he varied from such customs and he explicitly explained those. He never said a word about abortion or criticized the Torah teaching that a ZEF was not a person - nefesh.

So anyone claim ...[text shortened]... t 2000 years ago, Jesus would have been sent back to Judea to be executed when he was an infant.

You seem to forget that they killed Jesus because he did not conform to being a Jew.

But hey, you are an arrogant blind man, so trying to show you your error is useless. You are what you are and God will give you your just reward.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I already gave it. It's on Page 2 according to Jewish law: "the act of birth changes the status of the fetus from a nonperson to a person (nefesh)". http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-beginning-of-life-in-judaism/

You do realize that at least a third and probably more than half of all zygotes "die" as a result of natural causes before birth ...[text shortened]... ar-old child or a Petri dish containing 10 seven-day old embryos. Which do you choose to rescue?

I don't care about a Jewish groups opinion. Psalm 139 and many other places in scripture are clear about a baby in the womb being a person.