Cop shooting Columbus Teen

@vivify said
No one believes for a second what you say, obviously, since every single conservative on this site keeps on bringing up over and over that "hey, whites are killed too!"

This completely missed the point. The problem isn't merely that blacks are being killed by cops just like whites sometimes are, but that blacks are unfairly targeted and discriminated against, and dispropor ...[text shortened]... ystemic racism against blacks (that doesn't exist for whites) is the problem and the reason for BLM.

It's hard to care about a person who does not care about himself.

e.g. Jacob Blake fights off multiple police officers and reaches into a car where police can't know whether he has a gun, but obviously he is in a state of mind where they'd reasonably assume he'd use it on them if he had one. The result is he gets shot. Even if my best friend got shot that way, I'm not going to protest against the police. If you care so little about your on safety and the safety of those around you, don't ask me to care about your results.

Any discussion of police killings that does not subtract out the numbers of those who either attack or act like Blake is not a discussion that's going to enlist my sympathy.

There are a very small number of cases in the US where police mistakenly kill someone who is not actively and intentionally creating his own danger. Sure, I have sympathy in those cases. But the number is so small that it may literally be the smallest problem that black Americans face.

@techsouth said
But the number is so small that it may literally be the smallest problem that black Americans face.

I already mentioned that blacks are disproportionately killed compared to whites, but that's not the full scope of the issue. As I already explained to Earl, focusing on the number of deaths alone misses the point.

The disproportionate amount of killings is part of a larger systemic problem against blacks (and other minorities) in the US. Blacks aren't just killed disproportionately, they are unjustly targeted by law enforcement and abused; the "justice system" often leaves such crimes unpunished.

Consider Eric Garner, another black man who clearly wasn't violent, handcuffed AND clearly stating he couldn't breathe, while his breathing was also restricted, using a *banned* chokehold. Despite video evidence of all this, the cop who applied the banned chokehold and continued to do so even after Garner said "I can't breathe" (just like Floyd said) wasn't even charged with a crime.

Let me repeat: that cop wasn't even charged. I don't mean he wasn't convicted; I mean no charges were even brought, despite the unprovoked killing being caught clearly on video. This is a problem that not existed since Rodney King, and long before.

It's not just about cops killing blacks; Amaud Arbery, Treyvon Martin, all the way back to Emmit Till; blacks have been murdered with no justice, despite clear evidence of injustice. By saying blacks killed by cops is the "smallest problem" blacks face, you're saying something that is both false, harmful, and belittles the issue like it's a statistic from accidental drowning.

@vivify said
I already mentioned that blacks are disproportionately killed compared to whites, but that's not the full scope of the issue. As I already explained to Earl, focusing on the number of deaths alone misses the point.

The disproportionate amount of killings is part of a larger systemic problem against blacks (and other minorities) in the US. Blacks aren't just killed dispr ...[text shortened]... that is both false, harmful, and belittles the issue like it's a statistic from accidental drowning.

never once have you considered that these blacks act differently and do things that other races dont.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Don't use that racist term if you're not also willing to use the black equivalent. By using it, you make yourself out as bad as the Klan.

@shallow-blue said
Don't use that racist term if you're not also willing to use the black equivalent. By using it, you make yourself out as bad as the Klan.

Whites on this site have repeatedly stated that they're not bothered by the term.

If it offends you, I'll stop using it.

@vivify said
I already mentioned that blacks are disproportionately killed compared to whites, but that's not the full scope of the issue. As I already explained to Earl, focusing on the number of deaths alone misses the point.

The disproportionate amount of killings is part of a larger systemic problem against blacks (and other minorities) in the US. Blacks aren't just killed dispr ...[text shortened]... that is both false, harmful, and belittles the issue like it's a statistic from accidental drowning.

It seems true that blacks are stopped by police more frequently and for lesser reasons than whites. But can we agree that being pulled over and questioned (and released) is a substantially less problem than being beaten and/or killed? I've personally been arrested by police for what was mostly a lie. I've been pulled over and saw police with hands on their guns while they approached my car. Even then, I understood that surviving this encounter would be well within my powers. The way you act when interacting with police is going to have a huge affect on how you're treated.

You mentioned by name 4 cases. 1 happened in 1955 and seems to be an atrocity. But if we're evaluating the state of the US in 2021, it doesn't seem helpful to cite anecdotes from 66 years ago. If the US becomes a racism free utopia at some point in the future, the events of Emmit Till are still going to be a historical fact. You mentioned Treyvon Martin. I don't intend to have that debate again. I am very familiar with the case and even watched a good bit of the trial. You think that data point helps make your case and I know I won't convince you otherwise, but you totally missed the mark if you think bringing up Trayvon Martin carries any persuasion power with me as a case of a black victim. Arbery, happens to be black. I think the guys that shot him belong in jail, but Arbery had some control of the outcome too. To me it looked like 3 or 4 people acting stupid that resulted in one of them being killed. There are around 20,000 homicides a year in the US. Of those 20,000, how many do you claim the victim had it coming more so than Arbery? (I'm not saying that Arbery had it coming. But no one has told me why I'm supposed to feel more sorry for Arvery than the other 20,000 or so murders that happened in the 12 months prior.) And you bring up Eric Garner. That's a recent enough case, but don't you suppose police have heard before the phrase "I can't breath"? Can we make a national pact that no criminal will ever claim he can't breath unless it's actually true? And Eric, being morbidly obese could have done himself a favor by not resisting arrest. I have no medical training, but Garner was ruled to have had a heart attack. I don't believe the police were given any discretion on whether they could NOT arrest Garner, and once attempting to arrest him, I don't believe they have the discretion to just let him go because he fights back. I also have no police training, but I recognize the police had a difficult job. I'm not claiming the police did everything right, but I've got limited sympathy for Eric Garner.

You said that what I said is
(a) false.... I maintain that what I am saying is true. I'm hard pressed to think of another problem for black Americans that is not much bigger than the risk of being killed by police when neither attacking the police nor resisting arrest in a way that looks dangerous.
(b) harmful... I disagree. What could be more harmful than telling black youth that their own actions don't matter when interacting with police. What could be more harmful than lifting up as a hero and a martyr someone who fought the police, uses drugs, and pulls a gun on a pregnant woman? I say youth will have MUCH better results if they are taught to recognize that police legitimately fear for their own safety and that each of us have the power to ensure any interaction is at least safe. Even if I am grossly underestimating the likelihood of an unprovoked police killing, you'll still get a much better outcome on average if you acted as if you believed the police won't kill you if you cooperate. Personally, I think you're position is both false, but even if it were true is more harmful to internalize as a belief. There are around 50 million police interactions each year in the US. If police were gunning down black men indiscriminately, there would be a lot more dead bodies.
(c) belittles the issue... At some point we have to look carefully at statistics. If a married couple comes in for counseling and the wife has allegations of abuse, at some point, any competent counselor would ask questions to explore the veracity of such claims. The fact is that police are 18 times more likely to be killed by a black man than an unarmed black man is to be killed by police. Although it is unfair for law abiding black men to be approached by police more frequently than white men, there are many variables that contribute to this. As one example, the average black man is 12 times more likely to murder a white man than the average white man is to murder a black man. Perhaps there are other things other than racism contributing to the fact that black men are more likely to be stopped by police.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

There is nothing that police do to blacks that they don't do to whites.

@techsouth said
There is nothing that police do to blacks that they don't do to whites.

Except for target them based on race.

@vivify said
Except for target them based on race.

Serious question, vivify...

When George Floyd was approached by Minneapolis police, was it because the cops were seeking black men to screw with,
or was it because there was an ABP out on George Floyd because he tried to pass a fake $20 bill?

Your inverse racist view of life is guiding you to make false and irrational statements. So sorry, old chap.

@earl-of-trumps said
Serious question, vivify...

When George Floyd was approached by Minneapolis police, was it because the cops were seeking black men to screw with,
or was it because there was an ABP out on George Floyd because he tried to pass a fake $20 bill?

What are you saying? That because because one single solitary black man may not have been specifically targeted, racial profiling doesn't exist?

Use your head.

@vivify said
What are you saying? That because because one single solitary black man may not have been specifically targeted, racial profiling doesn't exist?

Use your head.

Racial profiling exists, there is no question.
So it looks like we are down to a case by case basis, not making sweeping generalizations.

In the end, Vivify, I think you will have to agree that black communities being more criminal is the key reason
why african americans have more confrontations with the police. And all the statistics flow from there.

@earl-of-trumps said
In the end, Vivify, I think you will have to agree that black communities being more criminal is the key reason
why african americans have more confrontations with the police. And all the statistics flow from there.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-florida-state-attorney-pulled-over-traffic-stop-prompting-criticism-n782481

Caught on camera, a black woman was randomly pulled over by cops. The reason? They wanted to see if a fairly pricey car was stolen.
The black woman they pulled over? A Florida state District Attorney.

The video went viral because you can see the cops start to crap themselves as they realize who the black woman is. But the bigger issue is that these cops randomly pulled over a black woman they had *no reason* to pull over.
The police treatment of blacks has nothing to do with criminality. The black DA in the video is not an isolated incident. This is racism, pure and simple.

Amaud Arbery was just jogging and minding his own business. Treyvon Martin was just walking by himself after purchasing items from a store, minding his own business.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/a-black-teen-was-fatally-shot-following-a-dispute-over-loud-music-police-say/

A white man shot and killed a black teen for playing loud music in the teen's own car.

These encounters have nothing to do with being "criminal". This is racism, pure and simple.

@vivify said
Whites on this site have repeatedly stated that they're not bothered by the term.

If it offends you, I'll stop using it.

It definitely offends me. And you already knew that, because was coined to be offensive.

I also am not "Caucasian". I speak neither Chechen nor Georgian. And yes, that term is racist, too; as racist as "Ethiopic" for black people.