@no1marauder saidYet the numbers killed by police is also tiny compared to arrests for drug offenses. Seems to me that if a person is more inclined to violence, they're more likely to be killed by police.
The number of murders during drug deals is tiny compared to the number of arrests for drug offenses of which there were 1.5 million in 2019 with 86.7% for mere possession. https://www.drugpolicyfacts.org/node/235
Your post is basically justifying disparate treatment based on racial stereotypes.
@no1marauder saidAnd about 1 in 50,000 police interactions result in death.
About 1 in a 1000 arrests are for murders.
@techsouth saidIt seems to me that police in the US are more inclined to kill than those in comparable countries.
Yet the numbers killed by police is also tiny compared to arrests for drug offenses. Seems to me that if a person is more inclined to violence, they're more likely to be killed by police.
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No it isn't. - @no1marauder
July 2020;
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/22/894111002/15-people-wounded-in-shooting-that-targeted-a-funeral-in-chicago
Chicago Police are investigating a mass shooting that left at least 15 people wounded Tuesday night at a funeral on the city's South Side. One of the victims remains in "extremely critical condition," and another is in critical condition, police say.
The violence exploded outside a funeral home in the Auburn Gresham neighborhood, where mourners had gathered for a large funeral. Investigators say they found roughly 60 shell casings at the scene.
Around 6:30 p.m. local time, a black Chevrolet Malibu sped down West 79th St., spraying bullets at people gathered on the block where Rhodes Funeral Services is located, according to police.
"At that time, the attendees of the funeral exchanged gunfire with the black vehicle," First Deputy Superintendent Eric Carter of the Chicago Police Department said a few hours after the shooting.
The funeral was being held for a man who had been shot and killed in a drive-by shooting in the Englewood neighborhood, police said in an update Wednesday morning.
"It's an ongoing gang conflict problem," Chief of Detectives Brendan Deenihan said Wednesday. He noted that the car used in the attack had been reported stolen.
Describing the scope of Chicago's gang violence problem, Brown said, "There are over 117,000 gang members in the city of Chicago." Repeating the figure, he said that they were "broken into 55 major gangs," along with 747 factions and 2,500 subsets.
Every day, Brown said, several hundred conflicts break out between gang members in Chicago.
Where was the national media attention!!!...It was undoubtedly the LARGEST MASS SHOOTING of 2020! Almost no one knows or cared to report on the national stage as such!!! ASTOUNDING! ...it happens every day there.
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@techsouth saidAgreed; but as already pointed out, mainstream media outlets aren't the only sources that support the fact that blacks are targeted victims of hate by law enforcement. Decades of data, studies and historical records confirm this.
Once the public has decided that gays are being attacked more and the news only reports attacks on gays, it continually reinforces the notions that gays are the ones under attack and the only ones under attack. At some point one needs to step back and asses whether it is actually true and if so how significantly so.
But we need to clear up something: is your point specifically bias in news reporting, or are you disputing the fact that blacks are targeted and abused by police in significant numbers? If it's the later, you don't have a case here.
If a person is pointing a gun at a police officer, there is no allowance for history (e.g. the black guy's grandparents had it harder).
This is a red herring. No one is defending blacks who pull guns out on cops.
Consider the cases I've mentioned: Walter Scott, Floyd, Garner, the man picking simply picking up trash where he works, etc. All of these were cases where the cops were in zero danger of harm, yet blacks were either killed or had guns drawn on them.
If these black man posed a threat to anyone, I would've already agreed with you; in fact, check the OP where I defend a white cop shooting a black person who was clearly attacking a danger. I started this thread to denounce such a person.
So where on earth do you get off implying that I or anyone else include clearly guilty people when discussing police abuse toward blacks? You keep bringing that point up in multiple posts. If you're trying to imply the reason for higher fatalities from cops toward blacks is because blacks are mostly guilty of wrongdoing, that is a position ignorant of the history of systemic abuse toward blacks.
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@vivify said"If you're trying to imply the reason for higher fatalities from cops toward blacks is because blacks are mostly guilty, that is a position ignorant of the history of systemic abuse toward blacks."
Agreed; but as already pointed out, mainstream media outlets aren't the only sources that support the fact that blacks are targeted victims of hate by law enforcement. Decades of data, studies and historical records confirm this.
But we need to clear up something: is your point specifically bias in news reporting, or are you disputing the fact that blacks are targeted and ...[text shortened]... lacks are mostly guilty, that is a position ignorant of the history of systemic abuse toward blacks.
His point is there are legitimate reasons for the tension that leads to the use of excessive force. Its not systemic racism, it the systemic gang violence that police have to deal with in the black community on a daily basis. How do you not see this?
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/22/894111002/15-people-wounded-in-shooting-that-targeted-a-funeral-in-chicago
LARGEST MASS SHOOTING OF 2020....NATIONAL OUTRAGE AND CONCERN...0
How can you honestly not see why this was not a major issue on the national level about gun control. Every other mass shooting is used as ammunition, why not these ones?!!!!!? Go to any major city...there is something like this weekly your handlers could choose from to justify gun control...
@techsouth saidIn a five year period, 16% of those killed by police were unarmed. And an unarmed black was 3 times more likely to be killed than an unarmed white. https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-black-people-in-us-more-than-3-times-as-high-as-in-whites/
Yet the numbers killed by police is also tiny compared to arrests for drug offenses. Seems to me that if a person is more inclined to violence, they're more likely to be killed by police.
@joe-shmo saidAs I said in the post you quoted, if you're implying that the reason for the higher rates of abuse toward blacks is due to blacks being guilty of wrongdoing, that's a position ignorant of the history of systemic violence toward blacks.
Its not systemic racism, it the systemic gang violence that police have to deal with in the black community on a daily basis. How do you not see this?
In the link above is a televised debate between Martin Luther King and Malcom X. In it, Malcolm X makes this interesting comment: that MLK's approach of nonviolence promotes the stereotype of the "meek" black man.
Did you catch that? In Malcolm X's day, blacks were stereotyped as meek and passive. Yet, even then, blacks were targeted and abused by police, except MUCH more openly. I'm sure even you have seen the infamous videos of police attacking peaceful protestors during MLK's marches.
Abuse from police toward blacks didn't happen because of "gang violence" or any such nonsense: it was racism, pure and simple. Racism from law enforcement hasn't gone away. As the black man who had guns drawn on him merely for picking up trash shows, police don't need an excuse to harass and oppress blacks.
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@vivify said
As I said in the post you quoted, if you're implying that the reason for the higher rates of abuse toward blacks is due to blacks being guilty of wrongdoing, that's a position ignorant of the history of systemic violence toward blacks.
[youtube]h4PqLKWuwyU[/youtube]
In the link above is a televised debate between Martin Luther King and Malcom X. In it, Malcolm X makes ...[text shortened]... on him merely for picking up trash shows, police don't need an excuse to harass and oppress blacks.
In the link above is a televised debate between Martin Luther King and Malcom X. In it, Malcolm X makes this interesting comment: that MLK's approach of nonviolence promotes the stereotype of the "meek" black man.
Approximately how many years ago did this debate take place?
I'm talking about the overwhelming source of violence against blacks currently in America...Namely Black on Black gang violence. A single US city eclipsed the total deaths from use of force by police in the US among black communities...and you bring up a debate between two dead men from the 60's!!!..I shouldn't be surprised.
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@joe-shmo saidThe thread topic is about police violence. The point in bringing up that debate from the 1964 is to show throughout black history, violence from police toward blacks often had nothing to do with anything blacks did; it had to do with racism.In the link above is a televised debate between Martin Luther King and Malcom X. In it, Malcolm X makes this interesting comment: that MLK's approach of nonviolence promotes the stereotype of the "meek" black man.
Approximately how many years ago did this debate take place?
I'm talking about the overwhelming source of violence against blacks [b]currently ...[text shortened]... unities...and you bring up a debate between two dead men from the 60's!!!..I shouldn't be surprised.
You and Tech are trying to argue that oppression from police is due criminality from blacks; history shows otherwise. Police brutality toward blacks existed even when blacks were stereotyped as "meek".
@vivify saidOk you win!...Black people were once enslaved in America, and continue to be enslaved in some countries to this very day! Good Debate!
The thread topic is about police violence. The point in bringing up that debate from the 1964 is to show throughout black history, violence from police toward blacks often had nothing to do with anything blacks did; it had to do with racism.
You and Tech are trying to argue that oppression from police is due criminality from blacks; history shows otherwise. Police brutality toward blacks existed even when blacks were stereotyped as "meek".
@no1marauder saidHere are possibilities. And this isn't a perfect and complete categorization. This is a rough draft for conversation.
In a five year period, 16% of those killed by police were unarmed. And an unarmed black was 3 times more likely to be killed than an unarmed white. https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-black-people-in-us-more-than-3-times-as-high-as-in-whites/
1. Suspect shot while pointing gun a police.
2. Suspect shot while approaching police with knife with posture showing intent to do harm.
3. Suspect shot while reaching for a gun/knife.
4. Suspect shot while fighting police and reaching for something that police think may be a gun (but is not).
5. Suspect shot while attacking another person.
6. Suspect shot while NOT fighting police and reaching for something police think might be a gun (but is not).
7. Suspect shot while pointing toy gun at police.
8. Suspect dies in police custody exasperated by a struggle he/she initiated.
9. Suspect shot/killed by police while in complete cooperation.
10. Suspect dies while running from police, but otherwise presenting no threat (real nor perceived by a reasonable person).
Of these, I have sympathy for 6, 9, and if a pre-teen child then 7. For 6 and 7, the easiest thing we can do to reduce fear is not do them.
For all cases, police need to review what happened, but anything 1-4 I'd hesitate do call a crime even if it violates police procedure and results in a firing.
Of the 1000 so yearly deaths, it is hard to categorize each of them neatly, but from data I've seen 6,7 and 9 aggregated together probably are on the order of magnitude of lightning strikes. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist nor am I saying that police don't hassle people unnecessarily. But the risk of dying by police while falling under category 6,7, and 9 for anyone in America is probably about the smallest problem any of us have and that includes black Americans.
@joe-shmo saidSo rather than simply admit, like an adult, that blacks historically never needed to be at fault in order to be abused by police, you throw a tantrum and leave.
Ok you win!...Black people were once enslaved in America, and continue to be enslaved in some countries to this very day! Good Debate!
Good debate indeed.
@vivify saidYa know, Viv,
The thread topic is about police violence. The point in bringing up that debate from the 1964 is to show throughout black history, violence from police toward blacks often had nothing to do with anything blacks did; it had to do with racism.
You and Tech are trying to argue that oppression from police is due criminality from blacks; history shows otherwise. Police brutality toward blacks existed even when blacks were stereotyped as "meek".
Often when I raise the issue that all slaves, just prior to the Civil War, were owned by Democrats, and that the KKK
was a Democrat invention, as were "separate but equal" and Jim Crow, I get back that you cannot judge today's
democrats by the actions of democrats of a century ago, as "people change".
Let us not be cherry picking with that concept, mon ami