@metal-brain saidUhuh. Seriously dude.
It was written in 2021. What does that prove? Here is one from 2003.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12667025/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_vaccine
You have no idea what you are talking about.
This has been explained to you, in detail, so many times now, it’s just akward.
The corona vaccines do not change genes.
Gene vaccines do… that’s why they’re called gene vaccines.
And you, for some framing reason, have this muddled up and keep squirting it like a leaky balloon of pus.
You are not a virologist, you are not medically trained, you are not a laboratory worker, you know nobody in any of those fields, you oppose all common research and information that is offered you from all over the world and stick to madhatter right-wing conspiracy theories on this subject.
You think the whole world is lying except the idiotic sources you scour the web for which you think back up your sentiments; many of which absolutely don’t.
When this is pointed out to you, you scurry off down yet another side path.
And this has been said to you many, many times before. On very many subjects, including this one.
You are wrong.
That is the end of it. Sorry. Accept it and move on.
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@no1marauder saidSo they mean we saved 120m reported infections? We're catching what, maybe 1 in 10 at most these days? Except for people who get seriously ill or are in the hospital anyway, who reports their covid infections these days? We all have a million home tests lying around that the government sent us (if you filled out the form).
You're making several assumptions about the study which are faulty.
First, they specifically state they are using reported data: "Since December 12, 2020, 82 million infections, 4.8 million hospitalizations, and 798,000 deaths have been reported in the U.S. In other words, without vaccination the U.S. would have experienced 1.5 times more infections, 3.8 times m ...[text shortened]... sp. hospitalizations.
Taking those factors into account, their estimates are hardly unreasonable.
So, the vaccines saved 1.2 billion actual infections in a country of 330m people (of whom about 260m are vaxxed)? Or even let's say we catch one in 5 cases (we don't, but let's say)? So the vaccines saved 2.5 infections per person? Seems dubious to me, especially since most of us vaxxed people still caught omi a time or two. So, they're saying that if I weren't vaccinated, I'd have caught covid 3.5-7 times on average? Seems a little extreme.
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@sh76 saidI'm saying you're making the same preposterous mistake you made early in the pandemic; ludicrously overestimating the number of unreported cases. At first, you relied on garbage studies like the Santa Clara one and a Swedish one; I honestly don't know where you're coming up with your idiotic 1 in 10 number; the US is over 100 million reported cases now.
So they mean we saved 120m reported infections? We're catching what, maybe 1 in 10 at most these days? Except for people who get seriously ill or are in the hospital anyway, who reports their covid infections these days? We all have a million home tests lying around that the government sent us (if you filled out the form).
So, the vaccines saved 1.2 billion actual infections ...[text shortened]... that if I weren't vaccinated, I'd have caught covid 3.5-7 times on average? Seems a little extreme.
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@no1marauder saidIf anything I'm saving millions of lives with my PSA about masks, the clothe things are useless and as we've discussed may be doing more harm than doing nothing at all.
Your heroic insistence to risk other people's lives isn't as laudable as you think.
If you believe in masks take my advice at least wear an effective mask. That is full face covering, fit test every time you put it on, no facial hair, to be safe avoid filtering air from the immediate environment use a forced air supply something like what divers use, ensure your source is trusted. Stay away form people, all people, including the ones with a stupid rag on their face. If you must be in the vicinity of them do not enter the field either side of them, this is where most of their expelled breath is flowing out to.
Also take as many shots and boosters as you can, if you believe in them you should take them.
If you're a moral person you'll purchase the juice through a private source and pay for it yourself. While this might make no difference physically this is advice that's good for your soul, live an honest moral life, don't force your ideals on others.
@no1marauder
Cover up, incoming.
NSW Health in Aus will no longer be reporting vax status of those that die or admitted to ICU.
@wildgrass saidHow many people died from the gene vaccine? If the gene vaccine kills more people than it saves no1 is wrong. Where is the data? no1 has no data that he will accept. That is why this whole thread is a farce. Fifty-eight percent of coronavirus deaths in August were people who were vaccinated or boosted, according to an analysis conducted for The Health 202 by Cynthia Cox, vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation. That is not even counting vaccine caused deaths.
NBER data shows excess death rates were a lot higher among registered Republicans vs Democrats, with almost all of the gap coming after vaccines were released.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/11/23/vaccinated-people-now-make-up-majority-covid-deaths/
no1 is fooling himself. People who die within 2 weeks of getting the clot shot are considered unvaccinated. They don't even count those vaccine caused deaths and VAERS still proves the gene vaccine killed more people than all vaccines combined.
no1 likes to use corrupted data and defend it. Then he denies the data that proves him wrong and has no data he can present at all.
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@no1marauder saidEven assuming, arguendo, that the number was wrong in the Spring of 2020, 1 in 5 seems extremely conservative and 1 in 10 quite realistic now.
I'm saying you're making the same preposterous mistake you made early in the pandemic; ludicrously overestimating the number of unreported cases. At first, you relied on garbage studies like the Santa Clara one and a Swedish one; I honestly don't know where you're coming up with your idiotic 1 in 10 number; the US is over 100 million reported cases now.
To start with, many cases are asymptomatic. Unless you are admitted to the hospital, nobody is doing asymptomatic testing anymore.
Second, home tests are abundant and free or cheap. Unless you go seek treatment at a clinic or hospital, how is the government going to know you have covid?
Straw poll: I'm assuming many of us have had covid at least once this year. How many posters' covid cases would have been reported to the government because you took an official test in a clinic or hospital somewhere? You can even get Paxlovid on a home test and nobody official ever has to know you have covid. Detected covid vs. actual covid is probably now pretty similar to detected flu vs. actual flu.
Then, how many of us had covid and never knew about it, either because we were asymptomatic or just had the sniffles that we dismissed as a cold and didn't think twice about it? Given the number of people who test positive when they go to the hospital on an unrelated matter, I imagine this is quite common.
Finally, at this point, we're dealing with lots of second and third infections. Even making whatever assertion of an infection fatality rate they made, I assume that IFR was generated based on data from early in the pandemic when the virus was novel.
The number 3.2 million lives saved seems facially bonkers (1 in every hundred Americans would be dead right now but for the covid vaccine? seriously?). If they're going to make that kind of assertion, I need better data than "trust me, baby; my secret model told me so."
@sh76 saidI think a lot of your caveats/limitations in these analyses are addressed by looking at excess death numbers in vaxxed vs. unvaxxed populations. This study in The Lancet indicates the number may be close to 20 million lives saved worldwide by that metric.
Even assuming, arguendo, that the number was wrong in the Spring of 2020, 1 in 5 seems extremely conservative and 1 in 10 quite realistic now.
To start with, many cases are asymptomatic. Unless you are admitted to the hospital, nobody is doing asymptomatic testing anymore.
Second, home tests are abundant and free or cheap. Unless you go seek treatment at a clinic or hospit ...[text shortened]... o make that kind of assertion, I need better data than "trust me, baby; my secret model told me so."
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00320-6/fulltext
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@shavixmir said
Uhuh. Seriously dude.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
This has been explained to you, in detail, so many times now, it’s just akward.
The corona vaccines do not change genes.
Gene vaccines do… that’s why they’re called gene vaccines.
And you, for some framing reason, have this muddled up and keep squirting it like a leaky balloon of pus.
You are not ...[text shortened]... ubjects, including this one.
You are wrong.
That is the end of it. Sorry. Accept it and move on.
The corona vaccines do not change genes.
Gene vaccines do… that’s why they’re called gene vaccines.
Incorrect. “Gene vaccines” are vaccines that include genetic material (DNA or RNA) which allow your body to make pieces of virus so your immune system becomes familiar with them. Gene vaccines do not have to change a person’s DNA to work.
Some gene vaccines do integrate DNA into the patient’s genome in some cells. This DNA will not make it into your reproductive cells and it will not be passed on to your children. Nor will it change all the cells in your body.
The mRNA vaccines in particular are not something to worry about.
@Metal-Brain
You might want to distract from the op but the fact is Trump ignored Covid from day one, he didn't give a rats ass how many people died, he SAID, I don't want to cause panic which is not the actions of a real leader but the actions of a weakling more interested in his approval ratings than actually trying to stop people from dying. In my opinion he is DIRECTLY responsible for a couple hundred THOUSAND deaths that could have been avoided if he had run the fast track deal say a YEAR before he was FORCED into it.
And now selling NFT bullshyte trading cards for a hundred bucks each? It shows just how insecure he is as a human being, and that is exactly the same reason he ignored the covid pandemic.
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@sh76 saidThe math shows you are greviously wrong. Since December 12,2000 when vaccines first started to become available there have been over 82 million reported cases and about 800,000 COVID deaths. That alone is about a 1/2 reduction in fatality chance among reported deaths, suggesting a saving of at least 850,000 lives on that basis alone (granted that estimate is a bit high because it took a while before vaccines were widely available).
Even assuming, arguendo, that the number was wrong in the Spring of 2020, 1 in 5 seems extremely conservative and 1 in 10 quite realistic now.
To start with, many cases are asymptomatic. Unless you are admitted to the hospital, nobody is doing asymptomatic testing anymore.
Second, home tests are abundant and free or cheap. Unless you go seek treatment at a clinic or hospit ...[text shortened]... o make that kind of assertion, I need better data than "trust me, baby; my secret model told me so."
But, of course, the vaccines reduce the severity of cases generally and also the spread of the virus. A reduction of 120 million of cases or 60% in a population 70% fully vaccinated as compared to a population 0% vaccinated hardly seems unlikely. And 120 million reported cases equates to 2.4 million deaths in an unvaccinated population (or did using the US experience in 2020).
So there's already your "bonkers" 3.2 million deaths avoided even without considering the last factor mentioned i.e. the medical resources freed up by the reduced cases due to the vaccines.
@Booger
Funny, I took shot #1 almost two years ago, I am 81 fukking years old and in excellent health and working full time and my blood pressure is normal and most everything else, I suffered NOTHING from being vaxxed 3 times now.
In the US, guess where the most deaths from C19 now? Southern states where they say WE HAVE FREEDOM and SCREW YOUR VAX. What a bunch of asssholes.
With every southern state death the average IQ of Americans goes up a tiny notch.
@sonhouse saidsonhouse thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Text book dunning kruger, could be his new name.
@Booger
Funny, I took shot #1 almost two years ago, I am 81 fukking years old and in excellent health and working full time and my blood pressure is normal and most everything else, I suffered NOTHING from being vaxxed 3 times now.
In the US, guess where the most deaths from C19 now? Southern states where they say WE HAVE FREEDOM and SCREW YOUR VAX. What a bunch of asssholes.
With every southern state death the average IQ of Americans goes up a tiny notch.
@athousandyoung saidGene vaccines are considerd to be vaccines which change the gene.The corona vaccines do not change genes.
Gene vaccines do… that’s why they’re called gene vaccines.
Incorrect. “Gene vaccines” are vaccines that include genetic material (DNA or RNA) which allow your body to make pieces of virus so your immune system becomes familiar with them. Gene vaccines do not have to change a person’s DNA to work.
Some g ...[text shortened]... e all the cells in your body.
The mRNA vaccines in particular are not something to worry about.
mRNA vaccines do not change genes. Infact, instead of introducing a live virus for the body to recognise and fight, it teaches the body to fight the virus without using live material.
And that’s basically it.
If it was a gene vaccine, it would change the gene /dna in someway. It doesn’t.
So, it’s not a gene vaccine.
Or if it is, then all vaccines are gene vaccines, because a live virus is RNA as well.
It’s not really rocket science.
@sonhouse saidStop lying!
@Metal-Brain
You might want to distract from the op but the fact is Trump ignored Covid from day one, he didn't give a rats ass how many people died, he SAID, I don't want to cause panic which is not the actions of a real leader but the actions of a weakling more interested in his approval ratings than actually trying to stop people from dying. In my opinion he is DIRECTLY ...[text shortened]... insecure he is as a human being, and that is exactly the same reason he ignored the covid pandemic.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/flashback-biden-suggested-trumps-coronavirus-travel-ban-xenophobic