@sh76 saidSome of us had to work today.
@mchill @sonhouse @kevcvs57 @kewpie @AThousandYoung
Anyone?
@no1marauder I'm also happy to listen to your thoughts, though if you're just going to call me a covid minimizer and run, you can save your breath.
I'll get to it after I get home.
@sh76 saidYou're making several assumptions about the study which are faulty.
Okay, I'm debating on whether to post this because I really don't want to come off as anti-vaccine. I think the covid vaccine was a wonderful thing and saved a lot of lives. I also think it's a good idea for many people (though the jury's very much still out on children).
That said, reading that study makes me want to look at the calendar to check if it's April 1.
https:// ...[text shortened]... that underlies it.
Come on, folks. @wildgrass You're a reasonable fellow. Explain this one to me.
First, they specifically state they are using reported data: "Since December 12, 2020, 82 million infections, 4.8 million hospitalizations, and 798,000 deaths have been reported in the U.S. In other words, without vaccination the U.S. would have experienced 1.5 times more infections, 3.8 times more hospitalizations, and 4.1 times more deaths. " This renders your critique of their supposed IFR faulty; they aren't using estimated values of unreported cases.
So let's compare reported cases and deaths as of December 12, 2020 in the US:
Total Cases: About 16.7 million
COVID Deaths: About 320,000 (there's a skip between December 11 and the 13th).
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
OK, so that suggests a death rate before vaccination of 1.9% of reported cases. Of course, some of those who's cases were reported on December 12th later died, so lets round it off at 2%.
OK, but you'd say they are still overestimating COVID deaths averted. And you'd be right BUT: they didn't say "COVID deaths" they said "deaths". And from the article:
"Our findings highlight the substantial impact of the U.S. vaccination program on reducing infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. Curbing hospitalization rates by reducing both COVID-19 incidence and symptom severity is particularly important amidst the strain on the health care system caused by unusually high levels of flu and RSV (respiratory syncytial virus). COVID-19 vaccination has preserved hospital resources for individuals who would otherwise have not received timely care."
So it's clear their model is taking into account additional deaths that would have occurred from non-COVID causes because care would have been diverted because of the additional COVID cases and esp. hospitalizations.
Taking those factors into account, their estimates are hardly unreasonable.
@metal-brain saidNBER data shows excess death rates were a lot higher among registered Republicans vs Democrats, with almost all of the gap coming after vaccines were released.
@no1marauder
How many people were killed by the gene vaccines?
@no1marauder saidVacines credited with magical powers.
Some of us had to work today.
I'll get to it after I get home.
From Canada:
Donald Redelmeier, a University of Toronto professor and director of Clinical Epidemiology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre, received a grant from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada (NSERC) titled "Encouraging Vaccine Confidence in Canada."
Redelmeier looked at medical records of people in Ontario who were hospitalized after car accidents in August 2021, and found that 25% of the accidents involved unvaccinated individuals. He calculated that this is a 72% increased relative risk compared with those who were vaccinated.
@wajoma saidMakes sense; people who are foolish enough to risk catching a deadly disease without taking an easily available vaccine would seem to be the same type of people more willing to take other unnecessary risks which might get them involved in accidents.
Vacines credited with magical powers.
From Canada:
Donald Redelmeier, a University of Toronto professor and director of Clinical Epidemiology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre, received a grant from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada (NSERC) titled "Encouraging Vaccine Confidence in Canada."
Redelmeier looked at medical records of peopl ...[text shortened]... s. He calculated that this is a 72% increased relative risk compared with those who were vaccinated.
@no1marauder saidIf you'd like to start lecturing people that take risks that might get them involved in accidents,
Makes sense; people who are foolish enough to risk catching a deadly disease without taking an easily available vaccine would seem to be the same type of people more willing to take other unnecessary risks which might get them involved in accidents.
why don't you address the drug addled in America that lost 103,000 to overdoses last year?
sure. 😏
@no1marauder saidPeople who stay in there house without visitors drastically reduce their chances of catching the flu or having an accident.
Makes sense; people who are foolish enough to risk catching a deadly disease without taking an easily available vaccine would seem to be the same type of people more willing to take other unnecessary risks which might get them involved in accidents.
Now we see what's at the root of No1's life philosophy.
@wajoma saidYes to the first, no to the second:
People who stay in there house without visitors drastically reduce their chances of catching the flu or having an accident.
Now we see what's at the root of No1's life philosophy.
"According to the NSC, 53.6 percent of all injury-involved accidents occur at home. This includes accidents inside and outside, but only within real estate property lines. "
https://www.mydenveraccidentlawfirm.com/news-resources/at-home-at-work-or-on-the-road-where-do-most-accidents-occur/#:~:text=in%20public%20spaces.-,Accidents%20at%20Home,within%20real%20estate%20property%20lines.
You don't have a clue about my " life philosophy".
@wajoma saidHere's a link to that study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36470796/
Vacines credited with magical powers.
From Canada:
Donald Redelmeier, a University of Toronto professor and director of Clinical Epidemiology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre, received a grant from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada (NSERC) titled "Encouraging Vaccine Confidence in Canada."
Redelmeier looked at medical records of peopl ...[text shortened]... s. He calculated that this is a 72% increased relative risk compared with those who were vaccinated.
@no1marauder saidPeople who stay in there house watching netflix and playing on the internet without visitors drastically reduce their chances of catching the flu or having an accident.
Yes to the first, no to the second:
"According to the NSC, 53.6 percent of all injury-involved accidents occur at home. This includes accidents inside and outside, but only within real estate property lines. "
https://www.mydenveraccidentlawfirm.com/news-resources/at-home-at-work-or-on-the-road-where-do-most-accidents-occur/#:~:text=in%20public%20spaces.-,Accidents ...[text shortened]... ome,within%20real%20estate%20property%20lines.
You don't have a clue about my " life philosophy".
Now we see what's at the root of No1's life philosophy.
After all these years No1, yes we do build a picture of each others life philosophy through the hundreds of posts we've made here. Like all control freaks your life philosophy is essentially anti life, it was just a little more blatant with your post about vax fanatics being risk averse. I am hundred times more at risk riding my modern 160hp 1000cc motorcycle (something everyone should experience) than the oh so scarey wuflu and it sure aint about to stop because you got scared.
@wajoma saidYour heroic insistence to risk other people's lives isn't as laudable as you think.
People who stay in there house watching netflix and playing on the internet without visitors drastically reduce their chances of catching the flu or having an accident.
Now we see what's at the root of No1's life philosophy.
After all these years No1, yes we do build a picture of each others life philosophy through the hundreds of posts we've made here. Like all control ...[text shortened]... hould experience) than the oh so scarey wuflu and it sure aint about to stop because you got scared.
@no1marauder saidYou need to prove objective threat.
Your heroic insistence to risk other people's lives isn't as laudable as you think.
You can't lock people in their homes because they may have the flu, you can't force people to wear a stupid rag on their face because they may have the flu, you can't force people to get injected with experimental drugs because they may have the flu, you can't destroy peoples lives, businesses and careers because they may have the flu.