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Originally posted by techsouthI can see what you're sayng, but surely it dosen't have to be like that.
Yes. One of the funny things about "white guilt" is that most of white America feels obligated to prove they're not racist at any hint of accusation. Naturally all debate ends once the white guy enters that mode and the side playing the race card wins the day.
Example:
Person 1: I think affirmitive action does more harm than good for the black comm s black, no substancial discussion on race will be possible for at least another generation.
Being privillaged is not exclucive to the white population, in the inner cities, yes in Britian the people are more black the white but in the towns sometimes the asian comunity has the richest individuals.
The honour killins are not about race but religon, many "white" girls are marring muslim men and if this ( the honnor killing) is not stopped now the their childeren could become victims.
Muslims are only alowed to marry other muslims, and so the christian - or athiest or undecided; converts for the purpose of marrying their partner, and so a life under all the traditions follows for the whole family............
Originally posted by yo its meThey are certainly not about religion.
The honour killins are not about race but religon
They are about culture. The perpetrators are not fretting about how they are seen in the eyes of their god but how their neighbours and other members of the community see them. For them, it is a shame on the family that they have not been able to raise a daughter who "respects the culture" from which she has come. It may seem nonsense to you and I but we are not from that culture.
All cultures have done this, throughout history.
You could argue that it is miss placed religion that is the root of that cultural view but remove religion now and the killing will still continue.
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Originally posted by WheelyI have to disagree 'tis (in my opinion) all about the writtngs in the Koran and when certian people read them and decide to take them litterally. As I said before if cristians did this it wuld be called a cult, because we have updated the Bible to this century, no longer is an eye taken for an eye. But the Koran is still in the original language which has to be learned if a muslim is to read for them selves what their rules are.
They are certainly not about religion.
They are about culture. The perpetrators are not fretting about how they are seen in the eyes of their god but how their neighbours and other members of the community see them. For them, it is a shame on the family that they have not been able to raise a daughter who "respects the culture" from which she has come. I ...[text shortened]... is the root of that cultural view but remove religion now and the killing will still continue.
Or they fancy a war and why not call it a holly war that way the guilt isn't there.
The people of that region have a seriously sick attitude towards women. It's not religious as has already been mentioned. Armenians I meet here in the US are the same way and they're all supposedly Christian at least in name...kind of like how Mafiosos and chicano gangsters are often Christian in name.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI agree with your first sentence but I don't understand the second are these Mafiosos and Chicanos professing that what the do is to do with christianity, because I'm sure they would be stopped, called a cult and that would e the end of that quicker then if they were just durg pushing or gun running or what ever and the police had to gather evidence?
The people of that region have a seriously sick attitude towards women. It's not religious as has already been mentioned. Armenians I meet here in the US are the same way and they're all supposedly Christian at least in name...kind of like how Mafiosos and chicano gangsters are often Christian in name.
Originally posted by yo its meEver watch the Sopranos? Criminals of Italian and Mexican descent often make a big deal of Christianity, at least on the surface.
I agree with your first sentence but I don't understand the second are these Mafiosos and Chicanos professing that what the do is to do with christianity, because I'm sure they would be stopped, called a cult and that would e the end of that quicker then if they were just durg pushing or gun running or what ever and the police had to gather evidence?
Originally posted by AThousandYoungIt's called "tradition".
The people of that region have a seriously sick attitude towards women.
Not too long ago, French husbands were allowed to chastise (read: beat) their wives for insubordination. A light whip called a martinet was used. Now martinets only feature in S & M shows.
Honour killing is premeditated murder of a person for infringing (sub) cultural rules. There are undoubtedly similar cases in every country, but the more uh backward regions still dress it up in cultural garb. Put it this way: a man who cold-bloodedly plans the murder of his lover for cheating on him is conducting something analogous to an honour killing.
In the hey-days of the Ku Klux Klan, I would imagine quite a few black boys were killed for messing with white women, which to my mind would also be a sort of honour killing.
Originally posted by yo its meChristians do do this, as do Hindus and Sikhs. Would you like to point to any chapter in the Koran or even Hadith or hell, any major religious text that requires the murder of a daughter by her family under any circumstances?
I have to disagree 'tis (in my opinion) all about the writtngs in the Koran and when certian people read them and decide to take them litterally. As I said before if cristians did this it wuld be called a cult, because we have updated the Bible to this century, no longer is an eye taken for an eye. But the Koran is still in the original language which has ...[text shortened]... ules are.
Or they fancy a war and why not call it a holly war that way the guilt isn't there.
Just because you are scared of Islam and equate religious nut cases with the religion with which they identify themselves and are easily sucked into all the hype does not make the issue an Islamic thing.
If it isn't a cultural thing then why is it almost unheard of in Bangladesh or Indonesia both having a huge Muslim population.
Originally posted by WheelyNo I don't wish to learn the lanuguge, I am unable to verivy an exact verse, dosen't mean 'tis not there though. Have you read it are you sure you are right.
Christians do do this, as do Hindus and Sikhs. Would you like to point to any chapter in the Koran or even Hadith or hell, any major religious text that requires the murder of a daughter by her family under any circumstances?
Just because you are scared of Islam and equate religious nut cases with the religion with which they identify themselves and are e ...[text shortened]... en why is it almost unheard of in Bangladesh or Indonesia both having a huge Muslim population.
Unheard of or unreported?
Originally posted by yo its meYou can read an English translation you know. I have read bits of it and other writings of Mohammed as I have read bits of the Bible.
No I don't wish to learn the lanuguge, I am unable to verivy an exact verse, dosen't mean 'tis not there though. Have you read it are you sure you are right.
Unheard of or unreported?
If you admit to not actually knowing anything about what Islam says how can you say, presumably without blushing, that Islam itself is the cause of honour killings.
"unheard of or unreported" is the same. i.e. No evidence. However if you choose to presume guilty when there is no evidence then you are arguing for no reason.
So...the first victim in this story about Palestinian women was killed by her Christian father for loving a Muslim:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1512394,00.html
And here is a reasonable summary of the whole situation in and outside Islam:
http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/outside.html
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Originally posted by WheelyYou have messed things up.
You can read an English translation you know. I have read bits of it and other writings of Mohammed as I have read bits of the Bible.
If you admit to not actually knowing anything about what Islam says how can you say, presumably without blushing, that Islam itself is the cause of honour killings.
"unheard of or unreported" is the same. i.e. No eviden ...[text shortened]... if you choose to presume guilty when there is no evidence then you are arguing for no reason.
Mohammad thought he was the massiha and took the old testiment adding his own bits and called it the Koran.
I never said I know nothing of it. I haven't read the words in the verses. I can not pin point their location.
I have heard testomony of converters.
No evidence! You presume that reporters in the muslim world have the freedom to print facts, sadly you are mistaken.
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageArragh!!!
You can't expect anyone to take you seriously if you talk like that.
--There's a ghost under the bed.
--I can't see it.
--Doesn't mean it's not there though!
That's my point!!
I don't know WHERE IT IS IN THE KORAN but It is there just as stoning to death a prostitute is in the bible.
I don't need to look under the bed to know that there is no ghost there.