Originally posted by Bosse de NageYou're the genius here, so you tell me. Maybe the Muslims in Pakistan didn't get the memo that it's not OK to engage in honor killings?
You're not going wriggle off the hook.
You state that Muslims are compelled to kill their children (in reference to honour killing I assume) by their religion but are unable to account for the fact that Muslims carry out this archaic practice in some parts of the world but do not in others. Are you comfortable with spouting patent untruths?
By ...[text shortened]... ne murder--so what's with the Palestinian who killed his daughter for going out with a Muslim?
As for the Palestinian man, that's anecdotal and therefore, not indicative of any widespread problem -- in fact, this is the first time I've heard of it.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterYeah, nationality. Just another one of those things to blame. Clearly every Irish person loves to fight. I'm off out now to smash peoples heads together.
You fool: They weren't fighting because they're Catholic and Protestant; they were fighting because they're Irish!
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterThe sterotypical Muslim is a minority within Islam in general.
You're the genius here, so you tell me. Maybe the Muslims in Pakistan didn't get the memo that it's not OK to engage in honor killings?
As for the Palestinian man, that's anecdotal and therefore, not indicative of any widespread problem -- in fact, this is the first time I've heard of it.
Originally posted by techsouthYa, that's the great thing about religions. You can discriminate against any group in society and not be punished.
Most want to be free to practice their religion according to their convictions, which includes teaching in their congregations and families that homosexuality is immoral. This freedom should not be based on whether they're looking at New Testiment passages or errantly applying Old Testiment principles.
"Sorry judge, look here...this book says it's ok!"
"Oh, well if it's in your book then ok!"
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterWhat's with your memory? Honour killing is absent from Indonesia, not Pakistan. Obviously--as you know full well--honour killing is a cultural phenomenon that reflects attitudes to women in certain parts of the world--attitudes that are shared, it seems, by people across religious boundaries, as the example from Palestine shows (that guy was a Man before he was a Christian). Time to call in the cultural anthropologists...
You're the genius here, so you tell me. Maybe the Muslims in Pakistan didn't get the memo that it's not OK to engage in honor killings?
As for the Palestinian man, that's anecdotal and therefore, not indicative of any widespread problem -- in fact, this is the first time I've heard of it.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageDo you have other examples to show that?
What's with your memory? Honour killing is absent from Indonesia, not Pakistan. Obviously--as you know full well--honour killing is a cultural phenomenon that reflects attitudes to women in certain parts of the world--attitudes that are shared, it seems, by people across religious boundaries, as the example from Palestine shows (that guy was a Man before he was a Christian). Time to call in the cultural anthropologists...
Originally posted by torch71Gee whiz torch, I didn't say that Christians condoned the murder, so I guess the twisting is all in your imagination.
You sure love to twist things don't you. Where do you find anything saying that Christians condoned that murder? Where?
From your article that you posted and I quote"Faten Habash's murder was unusual because she came from the Christian minority in the Palestinian territories. Her desire to marry a young Muslim, Samer Hamis, so infuriated her family that the couple decided to elope to Jordan. "
Yes, most of the honour killings in Palestine are obviously by Muslims since they make up about 90% of the population, but if it was a purely Muslim thing, you wouldn't find a Palestinian Christian at it too now would you? Also remember that honour killings are in fact condemned by humane Muslims, who point out that it flatly contradicts the principles of their religion. So--honour killing is non Muslim, non Christian--yet still people do it! What's wrong with them...Guess religion has less influence on people than you might have thought.
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Originally posted by torch71To show what?
Do you have other examples to show that?
I don't have any more examples from Palestine, but here's one from Italy:
http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/honour_nm_news0011.html
And you can read more here:
http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/
Religion is a major influence and building block of most cultures. It seems very reductionist to ask if a certain phenomenon is cultural or religious.
I may be wrong, but aren't honour killings are endorsed, through religious justifications, by certain Muslim radicals?
Of course, one of the key words there is "radicals", but that doesn't remove the religious source* for the practice. I'm sure moderate Muslims are against the practice, but it is false that it is not a religion related phenomenon.
*Source or perpetuation factor.
PS: The corollary of such a reasoning is that it Islam (or Muslims) as a whole is not to blame, but some radical currents of it are certainly not innocent.
Originally posted by PalynkaYou answered this yourself with the word "radicals". Christian radicals might agree as might some political radicals.
Religion is a major influence and building block of most cultures. It seems very reductionist to ask if a certain phenomenon is cultural or religious.
I may be wrong, but aren't honour killings are endorsed, through religious justifications, by certain Muslim radicals?
Of course, one of the key words there is "radicals", but that doesn't remove the rel ...[text shortened]... ms) as a whole is not to blame, but some radical currents of it are certainly not innocent.
It's the radicals, not the religion. The religion might be used for justification by some nut cases but really it's justification for their own cowardice.
Originally posted by WheelyAnd the radicals I'm talking about are not religious?
You answered this yourself with the word "radicals". Christian radicals might agree as might some political radicals.
It's the radicals, not the religion. The religion might be used for justification by some nut cases but really it's justification for their own cowardice.
Like I said, that they are radicals doesn't stop it from being a religious phenomenon, either at its source or at its perpetuation (or both).
Originally posted by PalynkaDo you think political radicals are religious ones?
And the radicals I'm talking about are not religious?
Like I said, that they are radicals doesn't stop it from being a religious phenomenon, either at its source or at its perpetuation (or both).
Do you think the aristocracy killing a stable boy a religious thing?
It's a cultural thing matey. I do understand that culture is very influenced by religion but that isn't the point in my view.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage"By the way--you know that Christianity does not condone murder--so what's with the Palestinian who killed his daughter for going out with a Muslim?"
Gee whiz torch, I didn't say that Christians condoned the murder, so I guess the twisting is all in your imagination.
Yes, most of the honour killings in Palestine are obviously by Muslims since they make up about 90% of the population, but if it was a purely Muslim thing, you wouldn't find a Palestinian Christian at it too now would you? Al ...[text shortened]... 's wrong with them...Guess religion has less influence on people than you might have thought.
Maybe I misunderstood what you were imlpying here and maybe not?
Originally posted by WheelyDepends on the reasons used to justify each practice.
Do you think political radicals are religious ones?
Do you think the aristocracy killing a stable boy a religious thing?
It's a cultural thing matey. I do understand that culture is very influenced by religion but that isn't the point in my view.
In this particular case, the reasons invoked are religious. And you may argue against that until you're blue in the face, but it's the truth as far as I know.
But please read my posts again, I'm not attacking Islam, just the Islamic radicals.
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageOk the first thread was a brother shooting, not killing his sister who has huge ties with the mafia and it even states in this article that it may have been an excuse for the sister who was trying to separate herself from the MOB FAMILY.
To show what?
I don't have any more examples from Palestine, but here's one from Italy:
http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/honour_nm_news0011.html
And you can read more here:
http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/
The second does have some interesting reading in which I will read but the whole jist is that most Muslims do not condone " honour killings", but I ask you, I have seen several links to videos(even one that was posted on this site at one time) of a "honour killing" in which it appeared to be as many as 15 men that helped in the killing and a very many people watching.
Second question is that if they do not condone it why is no one stopping the public abuse and killings?