As I am sure you are all well aware, Mel Gibson was recently arrested
for DUI. During his arrest, he drunkenly blurted out appalling and
absurd statements about the Semetic people.
He is currently being chastised by the public for this action, most of
whom are demanding apologies.
I don't dispute that his statements were despicable (his word) and
disgusting, but honestly, who cares? People with his world view (that
Jews run the world in secret, or that they are maniacal, moneygrubbers, or whatever bigotted theories) are a dime a dozen.
Prejudice is not illegal -- only discrimination is. What he thinks about
Jews, blacks, whites, women, or whatever is, well, his right as an
American. That's not to say that I think that he is (morally) right -- indeed
not -- but he certainly has the right to opine it. Ultimately, as long as he
doesn't discriminate, what public interest does this serve to have
front-page articles on the topic?
Now, I certainly don't dispute the right of people to complain about
him or their right to, e.g., boycott his products, movies, or even
stations that air them. But beyond that, it's none of their business
what he thinks, any more than it is my business to know what the
readers of this post think. The amount of airtime that this topic has
received is absurd -- interviews with Jewish community leaders,
responses from Hollywood powerhouses -- while other, vastly more
important events -- ones of genuine public interest like, say, Iraq --
have taken a back burner. The repeated reports, the desemination
of the police officer's report, the running commentary on the progress
of his rehab and interactions with the Jewish community is the height
of sensationalism, I think, and signifies how people's priorities are
grossly messed up.
Yes, I know that he is a public figure and, consequently, his public
statements have public reprecussions. And, certainly, he deserves
criminal punishment for his endangering of his and other people's lives.
But, no one has any right to expectingly demand anything from
Gibson -- not contrition, not repentance, not even a retraction. If he
feels this perverse way, that's his business. And, as long as his sick
opinions remain the province of his mind, and not effected in the
community at large, then it's none of any one's business.
I find 'hate speech' as shameful and disgusting as the next guy, but
the second we start endorsing the repeated public chastisement of it,
we start heading down the path of censorship -- a dangerous one to
be sure.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioMaybe it's different in Pittsburgh, but nobody I've talked to has even mentioned Mel Gibson.
As I am sure you are all well aware, Mel Gibson was recently arrested
for DUI. During his arrest, he drunkenly blurted out appalling and
absurd statements about the Semetic people.
He is currently being chastised by the public for this action, most of
whom are demanding apologies.
I don't dispute that his statements were despicable (his word) and ...[text shortened]... tart heading down the path of censorship -- a dangerous one to
be sure.
Nemesio
Whilst i agree with the sentiment i feel that there is an aspect about this situation that you have over looked.
This was a drunken rant! It was not a public statement and neither was it an attempt by Gibson to rally people to his cause. I am certain that every night the police hear the drunken rants of a thousand individuals against every part of society, whites, blacks everyone.
The only reason this gets the public attention is because of Gibsons fame and position in culture, that of a celebrity and filmaker. Film is an art form! and a powerful one at that and has a great deal of influence over society. Therefore any extreme aspect of their pesonality which is not normally exposed to the people will always be news when exposed.
And when it comes to the amount of exsposure given by the media to the story sadly this is dictated again by the interest of the public, i personally despair at the lack of serious intelligent debate in the world especially in America, and hate with a passion the Fox network with their own agenda, but hate anyone who reports the news with an agenda because it is the most insidious type of propaganda.
Originally posted by DelmerI'd ask that you confer with your major local newspapers and
Maybe it's different in Pittsburgh, but nobody I've talked to has even mentioned Mel Gibson.
news televisions statements. I wasn't intending to make any
claim about what you and your friends talk about over supper.
Nemesio
Originally posted by kcamsWhile I agree with Nemesio's point, you have a point here. I can't have it worded better. I agree with your rebuttal.
Whilst i agree with the sentiment i feel that there is an aspect about this situation that you have over looked.
This was a drunken rant! It was not a public statement and neither was it an attempt by Gibson to rally people to his cause. I am certain that every night the police hear the drunken rants of a thousand individuals against every part of society, ...[text shortened]... anyone who reports the news with an agenda because it is the most insidious type of propaganda.
- J
Originally posted by kcamsWell I've seen no indication that the average person has any interest whatsoever in Mel Gibson. The media might believe otherwise but the media makes a living by using celebrities, and celebrities make a living by using the media. For almost all the rest of us it's a non-event.
Whilst i agree with the sentiment i feel that there is an aspect about this situation that you have over looked.
This was a drunken rant! It was not a public statement and neither was it an attempt by Gibson to rally people to his cause. I am certain that every night the police hear the drunken rants of a thousand individuals against every part of society, ...[text shortened]... anyone who reports the news with an agenda because it is the most insidious type of propaganda.
Originally posted by NemesioHe’s a public figure and makes his living off the generosity of the admiring public, especially his money to front his big movies (companies). When you make your living on your image to separate people from their money you have to take care.
As I am sure you are all well aware, Mel Gibson was recently arrested
for DUI. During his arrest, he drunkenly blurted out appalling and
absurd statements about the Semetic people.
He is currently being chastised by the public for this action, most of
whom are demanding apologies.
I don't dispute that his statements were despicable (his word) and ...[text shortened]... tart heading down the path of censorship -- a dangerous one to
be sure.
Nemesio
I give you Fiona Apple...
RTh
Originally posted by DelmerI'm certain you are right, Delmer, when you say:
Well I've seen no indication that the average person has any interest whatsoever in Mel Gibson. The media might believe otherwise but the media makes a living by using celebrities, and celebrities make a living by using the media. For almost all the rest of us it's a non-event.
For almost all the rest of us it's a non-event.
Mel has its merits. Decades of producing entertainment material for all people.
He being drunk, and making atisemitic declarations, don't disminish his personal/professional human value.
Anyone can be spouting anything while being drunk. If someone takes it seriously, well... we all have the right of free speech.
I defy anyone to cite a GB speech on the war to be more coherent then that... (and less hateful)
- J
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingAs far as I can tell, kcarns agrees with me.
While I agree with Nemesio's point, you have a point here. I can't have it worded better. I agree with your rebuttal.
- J
S/He agrees that the drunken rant was not a public statement.
S/He agrees that this rant is probably very common stock for police officers.
S/He agrees that this is only getting attention because Gibson is famous.
S/He agrees that this is not worthy of receiving the media attention it is getting.
Nemesio
Originally posted by RingtailhunterDon't get me wrong: I understand why Gibson wants to get his apology
He’s a public figure and makes his living off the generosity of the admiring public, especially his money to front his big movies (companies). When you make your living on your image to separate people from their money you have to take care.
I give you Fiona Apple...
RTh
on the screen -- Damage control! I understand why he wants people
to hear him say 'I'm so very sorry I said those nasty things.' The
more people who buy into his 'contrition' the more movies he's likely
to sell.
My issue was twofold: What right does anyone have to *demand* that
someone apologize for what he has said? and Why are the so-called
unbiased media giving this so much play, given its public irrelevance?
Nemesio
Originally posted by Nemesiowell, then we haven't a point to discuss in here, 'cos I totally agree with your (last) post.
As far as I can tell, kcarns agrees with me.
S/He agrees that the drunken rant was not a public statement.
S/He agrees that this rant is probably very common stock for police officers.
S/He agrees that this is only getting attention because Gibson is famous.
S/He agrees that this is not worthy of receiving the media attention it is getting.
Nemesio
Sorry if I have misunderstood your original post.
Regards.
- Julia
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingI agree that someone's personal views about the world doesn't
He being drunk, and making atisemitic declarations, don't disminish his personal/professional human value.
Anyone can be spouting anything while being drunk.
diminish his professional value. Consider Richard Wagner:
he was one of the greatest opera composers of all time, but was an
apalling public figure. I suspect that one's personal views will effect
the nature of their creative, professional material. That is, I now
wonder about Gibson's denials that The Passion of the Christ lacked
any antisemetic viewpoints.
However, I disagree that 'anyone' will spout 'anything' while drunk. I
don't think his rants were random; I suspect they are the product of
deep-seeded antisemetism. His rational mind may supress these
sentiments, but while intoxicated, they issue forth unchecked.
Perhaps he isn't even directly aware of them (in which case, his rant
may be a blessing, that he might come to confront views he wasn't
certain he had), perhaps he was aware of them and the alcohol only
caused him to abandon his filter.
Either way, he has the right to believe whatever hateful things he wants
and the media should find better things to cover.
Nemesio
Originally posted by lucifershammerWhy am I wondering about Gibson's denials? New evidence, that's why.
If you didn't wonder before, why are you wondering now? It's exactly the same film it was a month back!
He previously asserted that his intent was not to depict something
antisemetic. In the absence of other information about his character,
I took this assertion at face value. Now, I have more information --
the fact that he is a closet antisemite. As a consequence, I am
obligated to consider the assumptions made upon the presumption
that he had no antisemetic motivations. Therefore, his previous
assertions are now suspect, at the very least.
Don't you do this, LH? Don't you reevaluate your position based on
new evidence?
Nemesio
P.S., Naturally, I meant to write that Gibson denied that The Passion...
had antisemetic viewpoints, but I'm sure you understood that.
P.P.S., Did you have any comments about the substance of my post?
Mel Gibson is getting what he deserves (and hopefully no more) but I wish he'd use the opportunity now to say what his real concerns are ... isn't American capitalism lead by (certain) Jews and aren't they complicit in Middle East problems ?
I also wonder about the conspiracy threories regarding the absence of Jews on 9/11.
In Australia, the Jewish community protested against Mel Gibson and urged that if he had real remorse then he should demonstrate this by making a donation to a Jewish fund. This seems to confirm the stereotype of Jews being overly interested in money. How can this be regarded as a donation when it doesn't come from the heart and isn't remorse enough ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm about to go to lunch with good friends who are Jews (though one of them is a property developer who continually talks about money).