@metal-brain saidThe studies are based on real data.
All of those studies are based on the assumption that vaccinated people do not change their behavior and they unquestionably do.
They don't socially distance as much, wash their hands less, wear masks less, hug their friends and relatives more and generally are unaware that they could be asymptomatic carriers spreading the virus when they are!
Do any of those stud ...[text shortened]... ction cases count to see if there is a correlation.
Can you show a clear correlation? Yes or no?
So, track and trace. And then crunching the information to see what and who’s spreading when.
How the hell do you think they do it?
So of course behaviour is included, because the information comes from the bloody behaviour!
Now, crawl back to your trailer and spank your monkey.
@shavixmir saidThe only way to measure vaccinated people spreading the virus is to compare the vaccination rate of a country or state and the infection cases count to see if there is a correlation.
The studies are based on real data.
So, track and trace. And then crunching the information to see what and who’s spreading when.
How the hell do you think they do it?
So of course behaviour is included, because the information comes from the bloody behaviour!
Now, crawl back to your trailer and spank your monkey.
Can you show a clear correlation? Yes or no?
@metal-brain saidThose "factors" don't exist as the myriad of studies I have already referenced show. And you haven't linked to anything supporting your claim they do.
All of those studies are based on the assumption that vaccinated people do not change their behavior and they unquestionably do.
They don't socially distance as much, wash their hands less, wear masks less, hug their friends and relatives more and generally are unaware that they could be asymptomatic carriers spreading the virus when they are!
Do any of those stud ...[text shortened]... ction cases count to see if there is a correlation.
Can you show a clear correlation? Yes or no?
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@no1marauder said"Those "factors" don't exist"
Those "factors" don't exist as the myriad of studies I have already referenced show. And you haven't linked to anything supporting your claim they do.
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
Wearing a mask, socially distancing and washing hands frequently are factors that don't exist? So we were told to do things that are nonexistent factors?
Why did you support wearing masks if it is a nonexistent factor?
Did you change your mind about that? Explain.
@metal-brain saidMB: They [the vaccinated] don't socially distance as much, wash their hands less, wear masks less, hug their friends and relatives more and generally are unaware that they could be asymptomatic carriers spreading the virus when they are!
"Those "factors" don't exist"
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
Wearing a mask, socially distancing and washing hands frequently are factors that don't exist? So we were told to do things that are nonexistent factors?
Why did you support wearing masks if it is a nonexistent factor?
Did you change your mind about that? Explain.
That doesn't exist and you've offered no evidence it does while I offered a myriad of studies showing the opposite i.e. that it is the unvaccinated that are more likely to engage in risky behavior.
If you had any evidence to support your claim, you surely would have presented it by now.
@athousandyoung saidI see no significant difference between "forced vaccination" and "vaccinate or you lose your job."
That's because the USA has never had any kind of forced vaccination and is not considering it now. Your earlier dichotomy was a strawman based on emotionally laden incorrect terms.
@sonhouse saidNot sure how many time I need to say this, but I'm as pro-vax as the most pro-vax person you know. I have 3 COVID shots, I got my flu shot in September and I even got a new MMR shot last summer because I read that high Mumps titers were helpful against COVID according to some studies. I'm also happy to get the Shingrix and T-Dep shots. As far as I'm concerned, the more you exercise your immune system with vaccines, the better (well, within some limits, I suppose).
@sh76
You might think chicken pox is not a big deal but in adults it is called Shingles and you best hope you don't get it because it is a hundred times worse in adults than in children, which is why there is a shingles shot, which I got. A family friend has shingles and he is in agony all the time with skin lesions and such.
He is also an anti vaxxer so I guess you get what you pay for.
But surely you're not arguing for state-enforced mandatory Shingles vaccines in adults, are you?
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@no1marauder saidJacobson was "sentenced by the court to pay a fine of five dollars. And the court ordered that he stand committed until the fine was paid."
The weight of studies on the matter conclude:
That the vaccinated are less likely to get COVID19 (and thus less likely to spread it);
That if they get it, they are less likely to have severe symptons and thus are less likely to spread it by coughing (the most common method of doing so)
And that even if they have symptoms, these clear more quickly thus making spre ...[text shortened]... r neglecting or refusing to submit to vaccination;"
The Court rejected the defendant's assertion.
That's the "imprisonment" he was referring to. Essentially, he was imprisoned for contempt of court (or its equivalent). The failure to vax was punishable by a small fine ($157.92 in today's dollars, which is less than some NYC parking tickets).
https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1905?amount=5
@sh76 saidHow about "be vaccinated or agree to be tested for COVID weekly" or lose your job? That is what the OSHA policy requires. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/11/04/fact-sheet-biden-administration-announces-details-of-two-major-vaccination-policies/
I see no significant difference between "forced vaccination" and "vaccinate or you lose your job."
@no1marauder saidThat's fairer.
How about "be vaccinated or agree to be tested for COVID weekly" or lose your job? That is what the OSHA policy requires. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/11/04/fact-sheet-biden-administration-announces-details-of-two-major-vaccination-policies/
@sh76 saidSo what? That doesn't change the Court's analysis. It specifically says that the vaccine requirement could be enforced by imprisonment. Surely it could be enforced by measures less invasive of liberty like "losing your job" for recalcitrant insistence on being able to be "free" to spread a deadly, contagious disease.
Jacobson was "sentenced by the court to pay a fine of five dollars. And the court ordered that he stand committed until the fine was paid."
That's the "imprisonment" he was referring to. Essentially, he was imprisoned for contempt of court (or its equivalent). The failure to vax was punishable by a small fine ($157.92 in today's dollars, which is less than some NYC parking tickets).
https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1905?amount=5
@sh76 saidDo you disagree with the WH assessment that "Vaccination requirements result in more people vaccinated and save lives."?
That's fairer.
Data:
"Vaccination requirements have increased vaccination rates by 20+
percentage points to over 90% in many organizations. An analysis of health care systems, educational institutions, public-sector agencies, and private businesses shows that organizations with vaccination requirements have seen their vaccination rates increase by more than 20 percentage points and have routinely seen their share of fully vaccinated workers rise above 90%."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Vaccination-Requirements-Report.pdf
@metal-brain saidYour thesis is wrong.
The only way to measure vaccinated people spreading the virus is to compare the vaccination rate of a country or state and the infection cases count to see if there is a correlation.
Can you show a clear correlation? Yes or no?
As the links I’ve already given have pointed out, time and time again.
@no1marauder said===Do you disagree with the WH assessment that "Vaccination requirements result in more people vaccinated and save lives."?===
Do you disagree with the WH assessment that "Vaccination requirements result in more people vaccinated and save lives."?
Data:
"Vaccination requirements have increased vaccination rates by 20+
percentage points to over 90% in many organizations. An analysis of health care systems, educational institutions, public-sector agencies, and private businesses shows that o ...[text shortened]... e 90%."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Vaccination-Requirements-Report.pdf
Of course not.
I also think than trans fat bans and exercise mandates would decrease heart disease would save lives. I'm still not in favor them.
@no1marauder said"That doesn't exist and you've offered no evidence it does"
MB: They [the vaccinated] don't socially distance as much, wash their hands less, wear masks less, hug their friends and relatives more and generally are unaware that they could be asymptomatic carriers spreading the virus when they are!
That doesn't exist and you've offered no evidence it does while I offered a myriad of studies showing the opposite i.e. that it is th ...[text shortened]... havior.
If you had any evidence to support your claim, you surely would have presented it by now.
You offered evidence when you claimed wearing masks made a difference. Now you are claiming it doesn't. You are contradicting yourself.