Racism in ireland

@athousandyoung said
Why are you ignoring my questions about Lennox Lewis, Rishi Sunak, Catpower25, Moroccan Arabs and the Jewish diaspora? In particular this whole thread is about Catpower25 being treated as "not Irish" because he's not pure blooded and here you are constantly harping on about Irishness and Celticness being about blood quanta.

BUMP

@sonhouse said
@divegeester
And of course in your Phd thesis you proved all that, right?

All what?

@athousandyoung said
BUMP

Bump for whom?

@divegeester said
Same here.

Allegedly one of my ancestors on my fathers side was a Scottish pirate who was executed by drowning a few hundred years ago.

Shiver me timbers!

One of mine was a drunken ships doctor, it tells you something about your ancestry when that’s the best you can up with 😞

@divegeester said
Your “genetic make up” has nothing to do with you “feeling as much Libyan and Irish”, that is do do with your upbringing, where you have lived and your cultural experiences.

I agree with you, I still 'feel' Welsh. But obviously I am not.
A typical Welsh surname passed from my father, which he was passed from his father; 'Knowing' my father's family were from Wales and he had been brought up there, learning Welsh customs etc. All those things makes me 'feel' Welsh.
But I'm not.
It's a complex thing, how people feel.
Presumably the DNA is a truth. I think we're still working out what that truth tells us about ourselves.
I never 'felt' English growing up, I was always told about where my ancestors had come from and England was a small, not insignificant part but less than a quarter. But according to my DNA it's the majority.
So I do agree with you Dive

@yo-its-me said
I agree with you, I still 'feel' Welsh. But obviously I am not.
A typical Welsh surname passed from my father, which he was passed from his father; 'Knowing' my father's family were from Wales and he had been brought up there, learning Welsh customs etc. All those things makes me 'feel' Welsh.
But I'm not.
It's a complex thing, how people feel.
Presumably the DNA is a ...[text shortened]... art but less than a quarter. But according to my DNA it's the majority.
So I do agree with you Dive

I think some people like to appropriate a certain heritage and claim it as their own, no matter how tenuous the link.

For some people it becomes so important them, so attached to their sense of how they perceive themselves that, like @sonhouse at the top of page 3 for example, they get really upset and defensive when challenged on it.

@divegeester said
I think some people like to appropriate a certain heritage and claim it as their own, no matter how tenuous the link.

For some people it becomes so important them, so attached to their sense of how they perceive themselves that, like @sonhouse at the top of page 3 for example, they get really upset and defensive when challenged on it.

It's a shame people can't make a claim for themselves and have others accept it.
But I guess we have people saying they feel they are all kinds of things that others find difficult to accept, feeling like a different gender to the one their parents thought they looked at birth, for example.

It's a mind field out there!

@yo-its-me said
It's a shame people can't make a claim for themselves and have others accept it.
But I guess we have people saying they feel they are all kinds of things that others find difficult to accept, feeling like a different gender to the one their parents thought they looked at birth, for example.

It's a mind field out there!

I accept that @sonhouse wants to identify as “Irish” and I defend his right to do so; but that doesn’t mean I have to accept it as being true.

Similarly I accept that a man may wish to identify as a woman, and I defend his right to do so, but I don’t have to accept him as actually being a women.

It’s a minefield for sure.

@divegeester said
I accept that @sonhouse wants to identify as “Irish” and I defend his right to do so; but that doesn’t mean I have to accept it as being true.

Similarly I accept that a man may wish to identify as a woman, and I defend his right to do so, but I don’t have to accept him as actually being a women.

It’s a minefield for sure.

minefield, you're right, that's the expression.

Interesting though, isn't it, that if you met Sonhouse or saw him playing his Irish tunes. Or you met me and I had a Welsh accent and talked about how we burned down the cottages the English bought up for holiday homes, when ours couldn't afford them to live in: you'd likely accept Sonhouse was Irish and I was Welsh.

If you met a woman who had large hands you might well accept she was always a woman until someone said otherwise to you.

@yo-its-me said
I agree with you, I still 'feel' Welsh. But obviously I am not.
A typical Welsh surname passed from my father, which he was passed from his father; 'Knowing' my father's family were from Wales and he had been brought up there, learning Welsh customs etc. All those things makes me 'feel' Welsh.
But I'm not.
It's a complex thing, how people feel.
Presumably the DNA is a ...[text shortened]... art but less than a quarter. But according to my DNA it's the majority.
So I do agree with you Dive

I believe we get about 52% of our dna from our mothers, probably the only thing we get from our ancient paternal lines is our names and an indicator of regional origins.

@yo-its-me said
minefield, you're right, that's the expression.

Interesting though, isn't it, that if you met Sonhouse or saw him playing his Irish tunes. Or you met me and I had a Welsh accent and talked about how we burned down the cottages the English bought up for holiday homes, when ours couldn't afford them to live in: you'd likely accept Sonhouse was Irish and I was Welsh.

If ...[text shortened]... ho had large hands you might well accept she was always a woman until someone said otherwise to you.

Perhaps it’s human nature to cling to any victimhood driftwood we come across in our ocean of heritage.
The English didn’t buy them cottages rich people did and it’s going on all over the UK, I’ve said it before celts love a chip.

@kevcvs57 said
Perhaps it’s human nature to cling to any victimhood driftwood we come across in our ocean of heritage.
The English didn’t buy them cottages rich people did and it’s going on all over the UK, I’ve said it before celts love a chip.

It was just an example! I was thinking to think of a way that would appear 'Welsh'
Guess I could have said if I was wearing a leek!!

@kevcvs57 said
I believe we get about 52% of our dna from our mothers, probably the only thing we get from our ancient paternal lines is our names and an indicator of regional origins.

I wonder why you think that. According to the DNA test I did, it's exactly 50% from one and 50% from the other.
There was recently a baby, and apparent there are 4 people with three peoples DNA!!

@yo-its-me said

Interesting though, isn't it, that if you met Sonhouse or saw him playing his Irish tunes. Or you met me and I had a Welsh accent and talked about how we burned down the cottages the English bought up for holiday homes, when ours couldn't afford them to live in: you'd likely accept Sonhouse was Irish and I was Welsh.

If you met a woman who had large hands you might well accept she was always a woman until someone said otherwise to you.

If I met @sonhouse I would reiterate to him my respect at him continuing to work despite his (publicly acknowledged) senior years, keeping his mind active and general work ethic. If I heard him playing Irish tunes I might assume that he was Irish until he told me what he said earlier in this thread then I would know differently. Wether or not I would articulate this to him in person would depend on my proximity to the exit…based on his histrionic response earlier I might fear for receiving some more verbal or even physical abuse.

As for your assertion about the English buying up all these cottages I refer you to Kev’s reply to you. Furthermore, and as I pointed out to a grumpy Cornishman who was railing on at me about the Cornish being “forced out of their homes” … “your lot didn’t have to sell them did they, but they were quick enough to take the money”.

If I met a woman with large hands I wouldn’t think anything of it. If I perceived they were actually a man dressed as a woman I might think ‘oh look there’s a man dressed as a woman’. I wouldn’t condemn them in any way even privately, but I wouldn’t accept that they were a woman because to me they are a man dressed as a women, because that’s what they identify as. Or, they just get a kick out of cross-dressing.

@divegeester said
If I met @sonhouse I would reiterate to him my respect at him continuing to work despite his (publicly acknowledged) senior years, keeping his mind active and general work ethic. If I heard him playing Irish tunes I might assume that he was Irish until he told me what he said earlier in this thread then I would know differently. Wether or not I would articulate this to hi ...[text shortened]... ed as a women, because that’s what they identify as. Or, they just get a kick out of cross-dressing.

You know being a cross-dresser and being a trans women are different things though, right?