1. Joined
    10 May '09
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    08 Aug '09 06:15
    Originally posted by whodey
    But why is that a "good" thing? WHy should aocieity embrace it as good?
    You're really asking why freedom is a good thing?
  2. Joined
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    08 Aug '09 06:18
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    You're really asking why freedom is a good thing?
    YESSSS!!!
  3. Hy-Brasil
    Joined
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    08 Aug '09 06:43
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Like Obama's plan, I'm glad you're on board.

    Unless of course you want to post something else that's completely out of context.
    No. You do not have a choice w/Obamas plan.I showed you that yesterday.
  4. Joined
    10 May '09
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    13341
    08 Aug '09 08:221 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    No. You do not have a choice w/Obamas plan.I showed you that yesterday.
    You showed me a quote where the context is removed - the part where he *specifically* talks about the importance of offering a choice. I would LOVE it if you would go that and give a reply. But for some reason you seemed to want that to fade away. Shall I copy and paste it here for you?

    BTW, I effortlessly destroyed that last thread you made filled with a long list of copied and pasted lies. Sorry about that.

    Oh, and the link I provided... it wasn't to some blog posting some claims by a guy who "read" the bill and twiddered his findings. No, I posted the ACTUAL BILL.
  5. Hy-Brasil
    Joined
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    08 Aug '09 13:30
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    You showed me a quote where the context is removed - the part where he *specifically* talks about the importance of offering a choice. I would LOVE it if you would go that and give a reply. But for some reason you seemed to want that to fade away. Shall I copy and paste it here for you?

    BTW, I effortlessly destroyed that last thread you made fi ...[text shortened]... claims by a guy who "read" the bill and twiddered his findings. No, I posted the ACTUAL BILL.
    Nothing was taken out of context,nice try. Dont start lying about that too now. FMF is the wrong one to emulate around here.

    As far as me fading away... I am on eastern standard time for the record.I do have responsibilities other than hanging on to your every post and do have to walk away from the computer at times. Also, sleep does play a role at some point in my daily schedule. There is no fading away.Curious, what MOS gives someone so much time too sit on a computer pontificating in chess site forums?
  6. Pepperland
    Joined
    30 May '07
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    12892
    08 Aug '09 14:05
    Originally posted by daniel58
    How do you know nobody is planning one?
    how do you know the martians are not going to invade?
  7. Pepperland
    Joined
    30 May '07
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    12892
    08 Aug '09 14:06
    Originally posted by whodey
    The richest country in the world? What about the biggest debt in the world which is $11 trillion and climbing? Ther is more debt than currency it prints. Does anyone have that kind of debt? In fact, the numbers just don't add up as to how this universal haalth care will be paid for. Does anyone care about that or is it enough to say it is a right so we should all have it regardless of the consequences?
    maybe if you stopped wasting money on defence the situation wouldn't be that bad.
  8. Pepperland
    Joined
    30 May '07
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    12892
    08 Aug '09 14:14
    Originally posted by whodey
    So suppose the government adopt universal coverage and private health care disappears? What choice will you then have if you don't care for your universal coverage, for whatever reason? What happens if cap and trade passes and the government steps in and increases your energy costs up to 50%? Will it not cause you to heat and cool your home less whether yo ...[text shortened]... esolve their own problems. Then when the government comes up with a solution you best like it.
    So suppose the government adopt universal coverage and private health care disappears?

    there is nothing to suggest that is going to happen.

    What happens if cap and trade passes and the government steps in and increases your energy costs up to 50%?

    do you want to wait till the last minute?

    Will it not cause you to heat and cool your home less whether you want to or not?

    are you not worried about the future?

    The more power society gives to its government to solve their problems the less power society has to resolve their own problems

    who said I was in favor of that? Im only saying that drastic times need drastic measures.
  9. Pepperland
    Joined
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    12892
    08 Aug '09 14:15
    Originally posted by whodey
    I know that the conservative message may sound crazy in a world in which they print and throw money at all our problems. In addition, conservative positions that uphold moral beliefs seem equally bizzare I'm sure, especially in a world devoid of such convictions. You may want to cleanse your palate by turning on CNN.
    I know that the conservative message may sound crazy in a world in which they print and throw money at all our problems

    and yet it seems to be working.

    conservative positions that uphold moral beliefs seem equally bizzare I'm sure, especially in a world devoid of such convictions.

    what are you talking about? be specific.

    You may want to cleanse your palate by turning on CNN.

    what are you implying?
  10. Pepperland
    Joined
    30 May '07
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    12892
    08 Aug '09 14:20
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    These guys are deliberately acting like they don't know about the new world order. I am probaby the one that listens to mainstream media least and I see it clearly on it. They are openly anouncing it. I'm still with you and so are a lot of folks out there attending the tea parties. More and more people are waking up and these guys will probably be eating ...[text shortened]... anker bailout has schuffled at least 23 trillion out of the country. 11 Trillion is only half.
    These guys are deliberately acting like they don't know about the new world order

    yes joe, you're right and everybody else is crazy. 🙄

    They are openly anouncing it.

    are you hallucinating?

    More and more people are waking up and these guys will probably be eating humble pie within a year.

    you guys should write a song, what about "anarchy in the USA"?

    I have heard that the banker bailout has schuffled at least 23 trillion out of the country. 11 Trillion is only half.

    and that is a sign of a world government how?
  11. Joined
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    12857
    08 Aug '09 17:561 edit
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    You're really asking why freedom is a good thing?
    Ok, aince you will not answer me as to why you think freedom is a good thing, perhaps you can elaborate on how you view peoples freedoms can or should be curtailed to protect others rights. For example, the right to health care. Assuming a one plan fits all for the citizens of the US, is it immoral to take away peoples options that they have now in favor of a mandatory one plan fits all? Is this lack of freedom for the majority of Americans ethical just to cover everyone? Is this the ONLY approach to the issue?
  12. Joined
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    12857
    08 Aug '09 18:106 edits
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    conservative positions that uphold moral beliefs seem equally bizzare I'm sure, especially in a world devoid of such convictions.

    what are you talking about? be specific.
    Well finally someone asks instead of merely presuming to know what my moral beliefs are. Of course, I am anti-abortion on the presumption that it is, in fact, a human being. So to deny the unborn their rights to life is immoral. However, the other issue people regularly talk about are gay rights. I take no issue in denying them their rights based upon the premise that they are gay, however, I do take issue with providing them any possible rights that the average Joe may not have just because they claim to be gay.

    Having said that, these issues often define people as to whether they are conservative in the general culture, but for me they are distractions to the real fight going on currently. The real fight going on currently is the philosophy that we have other rights other than to pursuing happiness. The philosophy now is that the government is entitled to provide people with an economic means to pursue happiness. This means providing them with an income if they are not working, health care under any circumstances, and a retirement. For example, the constitution provides us with the right to own property, but not for the government to purchase property and then distribute it equally among the masses to insure everyone gets a fair share. That is the difference between the current mind set and the mind set of the Founding Fathers. It is the difference also between the conservative mind set of today and that of progressives.

    So why does this philosophy of entitlements infringe upon the freedoms of others? It is because it mandates that money and resources be stripped away from those that have these resources in order to redistribute them. For the progressive, these infringments upon ones freedoms are acceptable and thus over looked while all the while bellowing about their own freedoms being violoated by the religions who think that they should not have access to abortions.

    Then to add insult to injury, the policy of entiltments creates a "you owe me" attitude among its citizens. No longer are we responsible for our own lives despite the "unfairness" that may surround us. Now we look to Big Brother to solve all the problems in our own lives that we BELVEIVE we are powerless to change by ourselves. In fact, even though people get free hand outs from the government in various ways, it is NEVER enough. So not only is gratitude a missing ingredient in this entitlement religious dogma, the ones who are giving these money and resources are also robbed of the joy of giving to those in need. In fact, now the attitude is to find every way possible to get out of paying taxes. Those that create such taxes are no different such as our Congressional members.....that is if they even try to pay them at all as we have recently seen. So how do you like how an entitlement based philosophy has helped rob men of their humanity by robbing them of their gratitude and desire for philanthropy?

    In short, I am tired of the self righteous left crying about how the religious right should hot dictate their morality onto everyone else when they blantantly do the same. The fact that he conservative believes in a God and the progresive does not in no way makes the morality of the progressive any more or less righteous than that of his counterpart. In fact, the progressive are currently violating all of our rights but the conservative is not. Therefore, if anyone has a beef in todays society about a loss of freedoms, it is no doubt the conservative. The conservative continues without representation and without rights of their own as progressives trample them under foot shouting "Don't force your morals on us!!" Disgusting.
  13. Joined
    29 Mar '09
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    816
    08 Aug '09 18:58
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    [b]These guys are deliberately acting like they don't know about the new world order

    yes joe, you're right and everybody else is crazy. 🙄

    They are openly anouncing it.

    are you hallucinating?

    More and more people are waking up and these guys will probably be eating humble pie within a year.

    you guys should write a song ...[text shortened]... the country. 11 Trillion is only half.[/b]

    and that is a sign of a world government how?[/b]
    yes joe, you're right and everybody else is crazy.

    I am crazy but these other guys are crazier yet.

    are you hallucinating?

    I had a generalisimo burger with all the mushrooms

    you guys should write a song, what about "anarchy in the USA"?

    I don't know any anarchists

    and that is a sign of a world government how?

    I was wrong it is 27.3 trillion. The number speaks for itself.
  14. silicon valley
    Joined
    27 Oct '04
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    101289
    08 Aug '09 19:07
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)

    1 History of the term
    2 Conspiracy theories
    2.1 Illuminati
    2.2 Freemasonry
    2.3 Protocols of the Elders of Zion
    2.4 Round Table
    2.5 Open Conspiracy
    2.6 Externalization of the Hierarchy
    2.7 End Time
    2.8 Fourth Reich
    2.9 Alien Invasion
    2.10 Brave New World
    3 Postulated implementations
    3.1 Gradualism
    3.2 Coup d'état and martial law
    3.3 Surveillance-industrial complex
    3.4 Occultism
    3.5 Mind control
    4 Alleged conspirators
    5 Criticism
    6 Further reading
    7 References
  15. silicon valley
    Joined
    27 Oct '04
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    101289
    08 Aug '09 19:08
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)

    1 History of the term
    2 Conspiracy theories
    2.1 Illuminati
    2.2 Freemasonry
    2.3 Protocols of the Elders of Zion
    2.4 Round Table
    2.5 Open Conspiracy
    2.6 Externalization of the Hierarchy
    2.7 End Time
    2.8 Fourth Reich
    2.9 Alien Invasion
    2.10 Brave New World
    3 Postulated ...[text shortened]... sm
    3.5 Mind control
    4 Alleged conspirators
    5 Criticism
    6 Further reading
    7 References
    "Open Conspiracy

    In his 1928 book The Open Conspiracy English writer H. G. Wells called for the intelligentsia of the West to organize for the establishment of a global federation of strengthened and democratized global institutions, with plenary constitutional power accountable to global citizens and a division of international authority among separate global agencies, in order to build a world social democracy.[34]

    Wells warned, however, in his 1940 book The New World Order that:

    ... when the struggle seems to be drifting definitely towards a world social democracy, there may still be very great delays and disappointments before it becomes an efficient and beneficent world system. Countless people ... will hate the new world order ... and will die protesting against it. When we attempt to evaluate its promise, we [must] bear in mind the distress of a generation or so of malcontents, many of them quite gallant and graceful-looking people."[35]

    Wells' book was extremely influential in associating the notion of a socialist world state and government with the term "New World Order" in the minds of both supporters and opponents for generations to come.[36]"
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