@AverageJoe1 saidEurope is traditionally some of our closest allies.
You and sonhouse etal do not like Trump. Could you come up with just a symbolic number like, say 76, at the start of your posts, and we will all know that that means you hate Trump.
Secondly, you failed to say where Trump thumbs his nose as you suggest. Your lives are becoming quite generalized in your comments. You really never say anything. Hey, I guess the stock mar ...[text shortened]... ca. Then you can say you can understand why Europe is upset. If I were Europe, I would be upset too.
Did you forget that in your rush to praise all the idiot things Trump does?
@AverageJoe1 saidAre you really this simple-minded?
All of you seem to overcomplicate, and thus misconstrue, the nature of tariffs.
We buy a whole lot more products from the EU than they do from us. When I earn a dollar, that is from money that was spent by someone else. When I spend a dollar, that becomes someone else’s income. If we all spend money internally, then incomes can stay level. But if money is being spen ...[text shortened]... tegy their idea to support their economy with the spending of the US consumer.
It is that simple.
It's like listening to Trump. He and his regime are also an macroeconomic illiterates.
Just remember this in the years to come: Trump has single-handedly ruined the US and you supported and celebrated it. It's literally YOUR own fault.
@Arkturos saidScrewing up Americans is the POINT, to make things so bad they would have a rationale to kill the constitution and declare a dictatorship as the only way to 'save' America.
The threat is just the prelude to the deal.
The senate just passed a bill to take control away from POTUS the ability to do tariffs in the first place but Mike Johnson has figured out a way that the house will NEVER approve of such a bill. The senate is showing at least four republican senators who have grown mental balls and sided with democrats because they recognize how insane Trump really is but the house is fully in with Project 2025 and will not budge so goodbye democracy if we can't stop it.
@sonhouse saidGet rid of him and his lying accomplices before it's too late.
Screwing up Americans is the POINT, to make things so bad they would have a rationale to kill the constitution and declare a dictatorship as the only way to 'save' America.
The senate just passed a bill to take control away from POTUS the ability to do tariffs in the first place but Mike Johnson has figured out a way that the house will NEVER approve of such a bill. The sen ...[text shortened]... the house is fully in with Project 2025 and will not budge so goodbye democracy if we can't stop it.
This is a war for the soul of the US. Either it'll serfdom and Trump as a dumber and incompetent version of Putin or it'll be a democracy that needs some serious house cleaning (abolish the two-party system).
@sonhouse saidSo our economy will crash. The DOW is only about 30 stocks, you know.. There are maybe 5000 stocks, some doing well. So economy crashes why? Because it is time for harmony among the economies on earth? Are you saying you are against balancing trade between countries? Leave it like it is? India charges 52% to the USA. Sonhouse wanna just keep that going? The other imbalanced tariffs, too.?
Screwing up Americans is the POINT, to make things so bad they would have a rationale to kill the constitution and declare a dictatorship as the only way to 'save' America.
The senate just passed a bill to take control away from POTUS the ability to do tariffs in the first place but Mike Johnson has figured out a way that the house will NEVER approve of such a bill. The sen ...[text shortened]... the house is fully in with Project 2025 and will not budge so goodbye democracy if we can't stop it.
Can you answer with yesses and nos? If you want to tell us you don’t like Trump, could you just write 76 in your post and we will get it.
@AverageJoe1 saidYou (and Trump) still don't understand how trade works. And you still don't understand how stock are valued, apparently.
So our economy will crash. The DOW is only about 30 stocks, you know.. There are maybe 5000 stocks, some doing well. So economy crashes why? Because it is time for harmony among the economies on earth? Are you saying you are against balancing trade between countries? Leave it like it is? India charges 52% to the USA. Sonhouse wanna just keep that going? The other imba ...[text shortened]... f you want to tell us you don’t like Trump, could you just write 76 in your post and we will get it.
What will happen is this: The world will trade around the US. It'll take a few years to set up smooth supply chains. Then the only people taking a huge loss is the USSA.
No, a lot of foreign companies won't build factories in the USSA. The current management cannot be trusted. That means only the USSA market for domestic companies - or in other words a much, much smaller market. Tariffs will be a direct price increase to US citizens.
Secondly, investment into the USSA will diminish. That means less risk, less development, less tech, less jobs.
Thirdly, private spending in the USSA decreases severely while crime increases as people cannot afford food. Globally, consumers have already started quitting US products.
Fourthly, the scientists and the smart entrepreneurs will move. E.g. to the EU where stability and the rule of law is still in effect. After that the money will leave (if they haven't already). You'll keep the sycophants and people that don't care about the environment or health of the people.
Then, the USSA will face rising inflation, rising interest rates, rising unemployment, and a GDP in decline. Goldman Sacks already mentioned as US stagflation.
Finally, the world moves on and you guys can look back and wonder "what happened".
Remember this; This was ALL Trump and you celebrated and supported it.
@Lundos
A well written and thoughtful treatise. A Brown University professor could not have done better. However, I am not so convinced that all of these factors will be falling into place to the extent that our country will end up like you say it will. Your logic is just a little too pat.
Remember, you are writing about the strongest nation in the world. I am sure that it will settle nicely. Do you think people are buying stock right now on this dip? Do you think the same people are going to take advantage of balanced tariffs. Are you not aware of how Other countries have taken advantage of our country and we are going to stop it? Are you like your fellow libs, who think that we should not do anything and let that go on and on? Wildgas is the one with his head deepest in the sand. Let’s just keep on struggling with Biden Autonomics and get up into the 40 and $50 trillion range. Get your own head out of the sand, and see what happens when we start raising billions from tariffs.
Libs do not like Trump, that is the long and short of it. If Biden were still president or Pete Buttigieg and his husband were president, or any of them, and were taking on this tariff problem like Trump is, you would be writing how great an idea that is, let’s all get rich..
@AverageJoe1 saidI am aware of what is going on. Certainly more so than Trump and people only getting their information from the Trump propaganda media. At least regarding tariffs and the effects thereof.
@Lundos
A well written and thoughtful treatise. A Brown University professor could not have done better. However, I am not so convinced that all of these factors will be falling into place to the extent that our country will end up like you say it will. Your logic is just a little too pat.
Remember, you are writing about the strongest nation in the world. I am sure t ...[text shortened]... s tariff problem like Trump is, you would be writing how great an idea that is, let’s all get rich..
Also, I'm not a "lib". The US Democrats aren't really my thing and they've been pathetically weak and unprepared in the last few months.
Taken advantage is a loaded word. It can mean a lot of things. Does Trumps fake calculations take into account preferential treatment or lowered prices? Does it consider private investment? Not to mention the big one: services. No it doesn't. Trump and his cabinet of liars doesn't see the big picture. They don't understand macroeconomics, international politics or even how to calculate simple things.
What will happen is that Trump and his cabinet of plunderers will get a lot of money in tariffs but that will never trickle down to you. All you will see is a huge increase in prices. There is no "we" in this. There's the plunderers (you call leaders) and the weak, i.e. you.
Fair. I don't like Trump. In fact, I severely dislike him. He's everything bad in humanity. Egocentric, greedy, hateful, vengeful, delusional, he uses everyone, he thinks 'might makes right', he doesn't understand reputation or credibility, he's stupid, he lies all the time, and he gets people to lie for him.
And I mention this again: Remember this in the years to come. Not only is this on you and Trump. You supported and celebrated it.
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@Lundos saidBut if he prevails and i am right, surely you and the socialists here will acknowledge my predictions of success.
I am aware of what is going on. Certainly more so than Trump and people only getting their information from the Trump propaganda media. At least regarding tariffs and the effects thereof.
Also, I'm not a "lib". The US Democrats aren't really my thing and they've been pathetically weak and unprepared in the last few months.
Taken advantage is a loaded word. It can mean ...[text shortened]... ember this in the years to come. Not only is this on you and Trump. You supported and celebrated it.
Are u of the opinion then that the market/economy has peaked, and that we will tumble, and lose what we have had for100years? Goodbye America? never mind, you have already opined to that.
Amazing. I'm glad I took sonhouse advice and sold all of my holdings
Off the subject, but (given your not being liberal) I query your thoughts on men in women sports, paying debts of other people, such as that. Don't incorporate the word trans in your answer, as that means nothing to people like me.
@AverageJoe1 saidI'm not a socialist.
But if he prevails and i am right, surely you and the socialists here will acknowledge my predictions of success.
Are u of the opinion then that the market/economy has peaked, and that we will tumble, and lose what we have had for100years? Goodbye America? never mind, you have already opined to that.
Amazing. I'm glad I took sonhouse advice and sold all of ...[text shortened]... h as that. Don't incorporate the word trans in your answer, as that means nothing to people like me.
My best guess is that the US economy decreases ~8%-10% over the next 4 years, but Trump will change to way to calculate GDP and thereby hide the number.
I'm the opinion that the US market/economy has peaked for now. It'll reach a new peak over time if you move away from isolationism.
And certainly the days of the US political hegemony is over. The world economy will also hurt, for the US is still important, but the recovery will be better at least in the EU and Canada. I'm not sure about Japan and Australia.
Define a man. I'm against paying off other people's debts per se. That's also why I don't want to pay off the US debt through tariffs. It had nothing to do with me.
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@AverageJoe1 saidTrump's percentages have nothing to do with actual trade barriers imposed by other nations; instead it's a simple formula: trade deficit divided by exports to the US divided by two.https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-tariff-numbers-appear-calculated-183605650.html
So our economy will crash. The DOW is only about 30 stocks, you know.. There are maybe 5000 stocks, some doing well. So economy crashes why? Because it is time for harmony among the economies on earth? Are you saying you are against balancing trade between countries? Leave it like it is? India charges 52% to the USA. Sonhouse wanna just keep that going? The other imba ...[text shortened]... f you want to tell us you don’t like Trump, could you just write 76 in your post and we will get it.
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@Lundos saidThis is true. When fascism was prowling Europe in the 1930s the US benefited greatly from a mass exodus of the Continent's best and brightest. It's what helped catapult the US to superpower status by the 1950s. Now we are seeing the reverse occurring: researchers and valued experts in all fields are moving out of the US. They're going to Europe, to Canada, even to China. Foreign nations are now wooing all that the US has got, and really, who in their right mind would trust to return to the US with the GOP rocking the boat and courting fascist doctrines?
Fourthly, the scientists and the smart entrepreneurs will move. E.g. to the EU where stability and the rule of law is still in effect. After that the money will leave (if they haven't already). You'll keep the sycophants and people that don't care about the environment or health of the people.
None of the tariffs will bring manufacturing back to the US. To set up a factory is an immense, long-term undertaking demanding considerable capital outlay. From the point of view of any sane business, there are only two likely possibilities: (1) The tariffs will be gone the day after Trump dies or is dethroned; or (2) the tariffs stay, which means the US has lost its mind for the long term, and lacks the domestic stability necessary to maintain a profitable enterprise. So again, Trump is not going to get manufacturing to come back. The US is a service economy now, like it or not.
It's up to the Republicans in Congress to GROW A SPINE and THROW OUT Trump. The Democrats are willing, so the GOP needs to wake up, because cowering before MAGA maniacs is not an option anymore. The economic depredation Trump's policies will wreak (and are wreaking) are going to set off those maniacs sooner or later anyway, so rip the scab off and be done with Trump once and for all. Put him in prison, and hold Nuremberg trials for Trump's enablers (like Musk).
@Lundos said? You don’t want to pay off the US debts with tariffs? So what do we do with the billions raised through tariffs? Do we follow through with bidenomics with that money? Create more dependents and parasites? I don’t follow.
I'm not a socialist.
My best guess is that the US economy decreases ~8%-10% over the next 4 years, but Trump will change to way to calculate GDP and thereby hide the number.
I'm the opinion that the US market/economy has peaked for now. It'll reach a new peak over time if you move away from isolationism.
And certainly the days of the US political hegemony is over. Th ...[text shortened]... . That's also why I don't want to pay off the US debt through tariffs. It had nothing to do with me.
(Great opening here for a Susianne-type answer…” Right, you don’t follow!”
The rest of post is predictions, like Sonhouse does. I predicted that the queen of England would never go to the bathroom at the Cincinnati bus station. Looks like I was right.
@AverageJoe1 saidTariffs are consumption taxes, so you're saying the average American should pay increased taxes to "pay off" the deficit.
? You don’t want to pay off the US debts with tariffs? So what do we do with the billions raised through tariffs? Do we follow through with bidenomics with that money? Create more dependents and parasites? I don’t follow.
(Great opening here for a Susianne-type answer…” Right, you don’t follow!”
The rest of post is predictions, like Sonhouse does. I predicted t ...[text shortened]... een of England would never go to the bathroom at the Cincinnati bus station. Looks like I was right.
