Ukraine Refuses Any Ceasefire

@shallow-blue said
I've tried to explain this as clearly as I can to your psychopathic (lack of) soul: and therefore, there will never be an honest negotiation in which Putin is involved.

Unfortunately Putin has the support of a controlling share of the Russian population, so we shouldn't hold our breath waiting for him to die or be deposed. He could well be replaced by a like-minded autocrat. This popular support is why I said earlier that he won't back down, no matter the cost in lives and hardware in Ukraine. If he quits Ukraine, his neck will likely end up on the chopping block.

The simplistic calculus of kevcvs57 which holds as axiomatic that there exists some clear upper threshold in rubles and/or lives lost that, once attained, will compel Russia to pack up and go home is purest fantasy.

@no1marauder said
Chomsky's main concern seems to be that if Russia really starting losing the war, they might well resort to the use of tactical nuclear weapons which would Trump Western artillery and air defense systems. While I think the chances that the Ukraine can successfully turn the military tide is low, Chomsky's fears are reasonable and the scenario he paints plausible.

I think the probability that Russia would resort to using nuclear weapons against Ukraine is low unless NATO were to directly enter the fray, even if Ukraine by some miracle managed to turn the tide. However, the human and environmental cost of such an occurrence would be so very, very high that Chomsky's fears become reasonable despite a low probability.

We now enter the realm of expected values, in which the most ardent armchair champions of Ukrainian sovereignty could well lead us to a civilization-ending holocaust.

@soothfast said
We now enter the realm of expected values, in which the most ardent armchair champions of Ukrainian sovereignty could well lead us to a civilization-ending holocaust.

I like that "expected value" analysis, (You must have had some schoolin' past high skool) but isn't it just as likely that a loony Russian dictator or even a midget-power nation like NK with a crazy-ash dictator could launch the world into the same path and return us all into a medieval-age hell?

@shallow-blue said
I've tried to explain this as clearly as I can to your psychopathic (lack of) soul: and therefore, there will never be an honest negotiation in which Putin is involved.

That's demonstrably untrue; the US and Russia entered into two major arms reduction treaties (SORT and New Start) since Putin took office. https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/USRussiaNuclearAgreements

@kevcvs57 said
Stop lying Ukraine never had the same relationship with Russia that Texas had with the US As ONE of the United States.
Ukraine is a fully recognised sovereign state just as sovereign as the US and Russia. What your logic is implying is that the term sovereignty is meaningless and anyone can claim any territory anywhere in the world.
Might makes right so if NATO can defeat Russia it has the moral right to annex it obviously.

The USSR never existed?
Ukraine was part of the USSR.

If Russia should let go of Ukraine then the USA should let go of Cuba. The Bay of Pigs Invasion failed and so did the countless assassination attempts on Castro's life. All because the USA lost it's colony that it stole from Spain using a boiler explosion to blame Spain for an attack that never happened. It was a false flag event.

Do you support lifting the sanctions on Cuba? Russia is not the only country that is sore about a lost colony.

@metal-brain said
The USSR never existed?
Ukraine was part of the USSR.

If Russia should let go of Ukraine then the USA should let go of Cuba. The Bay of Pigs Invasion failed and so did the countless assassination attempts on Castro's life. All because the USA lost it's colony that it stole from Spain using a boiler explosion to blame Spain for an attack that never happened. It was a f ...[text shortened]... port lifting the sanctions on Cuba? Russia is not the only country that is sore about a lost colony.

None of that made any sense whatsoever and it certainly does not in any way support your lie that Ukraine belongs to Russia or is part of Russia.
Psst you do not have Cuba and the Bay of Pigs coup attempt failed miserably because the Cubans like the Ukrainians fought to defend their independence and sovereignty.

@soothfast said
That is a woefully naive assessment of the situation. Autocrats don't back down. Not when they're in this deep. Putin knows that if he cuts and runs now, it will spell the end of his regime and possibly his life. In the past he has demonstrated a willingness to expend enormous resources, over the course of years, to hold down bits of territory in the Caucasus region.

So give Putin what he wants and hope he goes away 🙄
I must learn to be less naive and more like you 😂😂

@no1marauder said
I've tried to explain this as clearly as I can to your childish mind; negotiations require reciprocal incentives. Right now Russia is clearly winning the war on the ground so if you want them to agree to a ceasefire you have to give them something of value. A halt in Western arms shipments during a ceasefire and negotiations might be enough to get the Russians to agree to such a pause in hostilities.

Your the child who insists on trotting the same mealy mouthed disingenuously naive nonsense about Putin in the face of the reality playing out in front of your eyes.
You do not deter a murdering scumbag by letting him murder more people by denying them the ability to defend themselves,
The first criteria for a cease fire is for the AGGRESSOR to stop his aggression All your nativity is doing is giving Putin the idea that if he keeps killing Ukrainians long enough the west will just give in.
The west will not give in to Putin because it simply cannot give in. Regardless of how the rest of the world feels about this NATO has committed itself to finally facing down Putin’s Russia and its constant aggression. If it takes 10 years, if it takes as long as Putin lives NATO will support Ukraine as long as the Ukrainians want to fight for their freedom and sovereignty.
Your crocodile tears can run in torrents down your hypocritical cheeks they will not make a blind bit of difference.

@kevcvs57 said
Your the child who insists on trotting the same mealy mouthed disingenuously naive nonsense about Putin in the face of the reality playing out in front of your eyes.
You do not deter a murdering scumbag by letting him murder more people by denying them the ability to defend themselves,
The first criteria for a cease fire is for the AGGRESSOR to stop his aggression All your ...[text shortened]... ears can run in torrents down your hypocritical cheeks they will not make a blind bit of difference.

Your heroic willingness to fight to the last Ukranian is noted.

10 years of this war would be absolutely catastrophic to that country. Moreover, even if you don't give the tiniest [barnyard expletive deleted] about the Ukranians (which you clearly don't), you should at least give some thought to the economic effects to the rest of the world from continuation of this conflict. That would include possible mass starvation in Third World countries and added inflation, probable recession and wasting of resources in the West.

All for your twisted fantasy of inflicting a military defeat on Russia which has almost zero chance of occurring.

@no1marauder said
Your heroic willingness to fight to the last Ukranian is noted.

10 years of this war would be absolutely catastrophic to that country. Moreover, even if you don't give the tiniest [barnyard expletive deleted] about the Ukranians (which you clearly don't), you should at least give some thought to the economic effects to the rest of the world from continuation of this co ...[text shortened]... twisted fantasy of inflicting a military defeat on Russia which has almost zero chance of occurring.

It is solely the Ukrainian willingness to fight and quite possibly die for their freedom and self governance which is the only issue here .
What you seem to repeatedly state is that somehow "you know better " than those risking life and limb for their freedom .
The price of freedom can only be determined by those fighting for their freedom .

@metal-brain said
The USSR never existed?
Ukraine was part of the USSR.

The CCCP wasn't Russia.

In the CCCP, Russia and Ukraine were separate.

Long before the CCCP, Ukraine wasn't part of Russia, but Muscovy Russia was part of the Kievan Ukraine.

Your Putin-paid-for historical revisionism is all too blatant to be taken seriously by anyone except useful idiots and foreign agents, like you and Marauder.

@no1marauder said
Your heroic willingness to fight to the last Ukranian is noted.

So is your continuing arguing on the side of the mass-murderers and mass-rapists.

Really. That's all anyone needs to see you for who you are.

You argue on the side of the murder-rapists. We argue against them. You pretend that letting Russia rape Ukraine is best for Ukraine. We do not.

That really is all it takes for anyone sane and honest to take his pick.

@no1marauder said
Your heroic willingness to fight to the last Ukranian is noted.

10 years of this war would be absolutely catastrophic to that country. Moreover, even if you don't give the tiniest [barnyard expletive deleted] about the Ukranians (which you clearly don't), you should at least give some thought to the economic effects to the rest of the world from continuation of this co ...[text shortened]... twisted fantasy of inflicting a military defeat on Russia which has almost zero chance of occurring.

Stop lying and stop being stupid
The heroic decision to stand up to the fascist Putin was made by the Ukrainian people themselves and its a decision they continue to make every day.
Your constant patronising tone toward the Ukrainians and their fight for freedom is also noted you pompous ass.

@shallow-blue said
So is your continuing arguing on the side of the mass-murderers and mass-rapists.

Really. That's all anyone needs to see you for who you are.

You argue on the side of the murder-rapists. We argue against them. You pretend that letting Russia rape Ukraine is best for Ukraine. We do not.

That really is all it takes for anyone sane and honest to take his pick.

These are brainless lies. I argue for an end to the war you argue for its indefinite continuation.

Which would serve the People of the Ukraine and the World better?