@no1marauder saidYeah sure thing Ivan 😉
So what? Who cares what Russian propaganda says? Why is that "important"?
A clarification; Crimea was annexed into Russia not after "pro-EU protests" but after the illegal ouster of Ukraine's President who opposed greater ties to the West than to Russia for the country.
Putin was so concerned and affronted at the undemocratic nature of the Ukrainian regime that he felt he just had to annex Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine 😂😂
@no1marauder saidYou cannot respond in a civil manner because your a pro Putin troll. All you can do is call rational analysis childish and ignorant.
Listen, I'm sick of responding to such BS.
I've made my positions clear and they bear no resemblance to your constant lies. I've shown several analyses that essentially agree with it, none of whom's authors can reasonable be considered to be the pro-Russian stooges you keep labelling anyone who disagrees with your wish for continual war to try to militarily defeat Russ ...[text shortened]... .
I will no longer discuss these matters with you until you stop with the falsehoods and insults.
You constantly ignore and deny well known facts and obvious common sense in your fanatical determination to blame the victim of this horror.
In short your full if it and wrong at every turn.
I’m sorry if I have given the impression I was debating you on this subject, I do not debate pro Kremlin trolls I simply point out when they are wrong headed or blatantly economical with the truth.
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@no1marauder saidIt's apparently important enough to you to keep parroting it, so I don't know why you're asking us.
So what? Who cares what Russian propaganda says? Why is that "important"?
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@vivify saidI think your probably right but to all intents and purposes it’s the same thing in that Russia is excused any responsibility fir the horror occurring in Ukraine and it’s all the fault of hard line Ukrainians fighting uselessly for some vague esoteric concepts like freedom / sovereignty and of course the malicious actions by neocons in NATOs ranks arming them pesky Ukrainians when everyone knows they should just line up like sheep and get slaughtered by that much maligned Kremlin chapter of Antifa.
I don't think he's pro-Putin, I think he's anti-NATO.
He will not explain why Ukraine should lose its freedoms and sovereignty to atone for NATOs past misdeeds though.
@vivify saidAs you can see, it's useless "debating" people who so twist your positions.
I don't think he's pro-Putin, I think he's anti-NATO.
I haven't proposed anything like a Ukrainian surrender has any fair minded person who reads my post would know.
I haven't condoned Russia's invasion; I've called it "unjustified" and a "Crime against peace".
I haven't even suggested the Ukraine give up a single slice of territory unless the inhabitants of that area agree in fair, internationally supervised plebiscites.
But to even go the slightest bit from the neocon wish to "punish" Russia by defeating it militarily or simply to bleed it (while destroying the Ukraine in the process) is to give the go ahead to these fanatics to accuse one of being a "Putin puppet".
It's ridiculous but there it is. There's no sense responding to such liars anymore.