@kevcvs57 saidI'm sure such moral scolding, repeated incessantly, will soon force Russia to withdraw, present its leaders to appropriate war crimes tribunals, apologize and pay whatever reparations Ukraine feels are just.
So the the Ukrainian civilians are being murdered in their droves but it’s Ukraines job to take the lead in talks.
Putin will not be interested in talks all the time he has the upper hand.
Grow up and stop denying who started this war and who ultimately needs to stop this war.
@no1marauder saidAnd I’m sure your false accusations of war mongering in reference to those who support Ukraine's right to self defence and determination will surely bring that nation to Putins heel where they obviously belong.
I'm sure such moral scolding, repeated incessantly, will soon force Russia to withdraw, present its leaders to appropriate war crimes tribunals, apologize and pay whatever reparations Ukraine feels are just.
@kevcvs57 saidYour lies about my position are tiresome.
And I’m sure your false accusations of war mongering in reference to those who support Ukraine's right to self defence and determination will surely bring that nation to Putins heel where they obviously belong.
It is not Russia that has foreclosed negotiations though it is pretty clear by now Ukraine's refusal to engage in them is badly backfiring.
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@no1marauder saidYour lying again, Russia’s new Peter the Great ( his words ) has no intention of agreeing to a ceasefire until his lust for other peoples lands has been satisfied.
Your lies about my position are tiresome.
It is not Russia that has foreclosed negotiations though it is pretty clear by now Ukraine's refusal to engage in them is badly backfiring.
Settle in and buckle up son Putin is in this for the long haul and it will likely putter out rather than end in any official cease fire. This doesn’t end until Putin is dead or dragged out of the Kremlin that much is clear. Stop pretending that your man is interested in peace whilst he’s waging war of annihilation on a civilian population, just like Aleppo and just like Grozny unless the rest of the world, particularly NATO, grows a pair and stops him.
Your the only war monger here by virtue of your irrational support for the psychopath in the Kremlin.
@kevcvs57 saidWhatever Putin's musings, it is the Ukraine which walked away from talks and set
Your lying again, Russia’s new Peter the Great ( his words ) has no intention of agreeing to a ceasefire until his lust for other peoples lands has been satisfied.
Settle in and buckle up son Putin is in this for the long haul and it will likely putter out rather than end in any official cease fire. This doesn’t end until Putin is dead or dragged out of the Kremlin that muc ...[text shortened]... our the only war monger here by virtue of your irrational support for the psychopath in the Kremlin.
unrealistic conditions to resume them. See the OP of this thread for further details.
You well know it is a flat out lie that I "support the Kremlin". I do support ending the war which you don't. I do support people's right to self-determination which you don't. So our disagreement is simple; you think prolonging the war to make Russia suffer is a great idea while I think the longer the war lasts the more everyone suffers.
That makes who the "war monger"?
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@no1marauder saidYeah, asking Russia to stop attacking them and withdraw, wow....how dare they?
Whatever Putin's musings, it is the Ukraine which walked away from talks and set
unrealistic conditions to resume them. See the OP of this thread for further details.
Like someone beating the crap out of you and getting mad because you asked them to stop pummeling you.
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@jj-adams saidThe Ukraine is losing and facing another possible disaster in the Donbass with thousands of their troops cut off and likely to eventually surrender like Mariupol. A ceasefire would be in the best interest of the Ukraine.
Yeah, asking Russia to stop attacking them and withdraw, wow....how dare they?
Like someone beating the crap out of you and getting mad because you asked them to stop pummeling you.
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@kevcvs57 saidI get the distinct impression you think that, somehow, Ukraine can prevail over Russia on the battlefield if only it were given enough hardware by NATO members. Is this so? But Ukraine is up against a steamroller. A slow and inefficient steamroller, to be sure, but one that is making steady progress each day. Ukrainian leadership, and a fair fraction of the citizenry, may still be giddy over the temporary victory of turning back Russian forces around Kiev, but they need a dose of realpolitik now. Even McDonald's pulling out of Pushkin Square is not going to turn the tide.
So the the Ukrainian civilians are being murdered in their droves but it’s Ukraines job to take the lead in talks.
Putin will not be interested in talks all the time he has the upper hand.
Grow up and stop denying who started this war and who ultimately needs to stop this war.
So what's your solution, exactly, if even having talks with Moscow are off the table? My own position is that this conflict cannot be allowed to escalate into a global thermonuclear holocaust, so sending NATO forces directly into Ukraine is off the table. Setting up a "no-fly zone" over Ukraine is also off the table for the same reason. As for sanctions? So far sanctions, together with the upheavals in global markets caused by the fighting itself, have only helped to raise the price of oil sky high, such that Russia's profits from petroleum exports is brimming over despite the lessened sales volume.
@jj-adams saidHas any war in history ever been ended because the losing faction demanded that the winning faction give up and go home?
Yeah, asking Russia to stop attacking them and withdraw, wow....how dare they?
Like someone beating the crap out of you and getting mad because you asked them to stop pummeling you.
Realpolitik. Take two doses and call back in the morning.
@soothfast saidPope Leo I supposedly met with Attila the Hun and persuaded him not to sack Rome.
Has any war in history ever been ended because the losing faction demanded that the winning faction give up and go home?
Realpolitik. Take two doses and call back in the morning.
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@no1marauder saidSt Genevieve warded the Huns off from Paris with prayers. Maybe the Huns were frightened of the wrath of the Living God. Atilla was known as the "Scourge of God" wielding the "Sword of Mars" - maybe the Huns had some respect for Roman religion.
Pope Leo I supposedly met with Attila the Hun and persuaded him not to sack Rome.
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@no1marauder saidEven if that happened, I'm sure ol' Attila didn't walk away from the battlefield empty-handed, and reparations for any sacking and pillaging of other towns and villages done hitherto were probably out of the question.
Pope Leo I supposedly met with Attila the Hun and persuaded him not to sack Rome.
@no1marauder saidPlease provide the link where Russia has sued for peace in any way or stop lying.
Your lies about my position are tiresome.
It is not Russia that has foreclosed negotiations though it is pretty clear by now Ukraine's refusal to engage in them is badly backfiring.
All Zelensky said was EU leaders should not be scrambling around Putin looking for an off-ramp for a mass murderer. If Putin has a serious offer to make to Ukraine regarding its territorial integrity and sovereignty going forward talks will begin. But Putin has offered no such thing so you really need to stop maliciously misrepresenting the situation in order to support your own pro Putin war mongering stance.
Peace talks take a mutual desire for it in both sides and a 10 yr old would realise that Putin is not going to sue for any kind of peace when he is gaining territory, albeit at a snails pace.
The first thing that peace requires is for Putin’s advance to be halted and his lines threatened. Both require the heavier artillery promised and air defence systems to protect civilians in the meantime.
@soothfast saidExactly there will be no peace until Putin’s losses outweigh his gains, finally some realpolitik
Has any war in history ever been ended because the losing faction demanded that the winning faction give up and go home?
Realpolitik. Take two doses and call back in the morning.
Heavier weapons and air defence systems for Ukraine are required before there is any hope of peace.