USA: Drop the Bomb on Hiroshima?

Originally posted by FMF
Actually, Japanese archives declassified in the 1990s show that the Soviet declaration of war on 8th August and subsequent invasion of Manchuria was the final straw that resulted in the Japanese surrender.

Ah ha! But you're missing the point! They Soviets made a shrewd political move their. That was AFTER the bomb - the Soviets quickly 'declared war.'

Due to the Yalta Conference, they were able to reclaim ALL lands Japan had taken during the Japanese-Russo War of 1904. The Russians made a good chess move there.

Originally posted by Ramned
Japan is not an ally! They bombed Pearl Harbor! They are the Axis - an enemy!

why would Palynka consider Japan an ally? he was talking about Russia.

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Yes, you misunderstood, that's been pointed out to you repeatedly. The question was what to do right after Pearl Harbor IF the US had the bomb to begin with at the beginning of it's entry into the war, and you made a jerk out of yourself by quibbling over when the "start of the war" was. By now I'd of thought you'd have learned your lesson and stopped harping on such a non-issue that had nothing to do with the argument, but here you go again.

Originally posted by zeeblebot
why would Palynka consider Japan an ally? he was talking about Russia.

Russia...was only an ally 'officially.' They had completely opposite ideas and plans as the United States.

Originally posted by Ramned
Russia...was only an ally 'officially.' They had completely opposite ideas and plans as the United States.

oh-boy, oh-boy, oh-boy, another chance to whip out the Lend-Lease wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-lease

Lend-Lease was the name of the program under which the United States of America supplied the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, China, France and other Allied nations with vast amounts of war materiel between 1941 and 1945 in return for, in the case of Britain, military bases in Newfoundland, Bermuda and the British West Indies. It began in March 1941, nine months before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
...
A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to nearly $700 billion at 2007 prices) worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France and $1.6 billion to China. Reverse Lend Lease comprised services (like rent on air bases) that went to the U.S. It totaled $7.8 billion, of which $6.8 billion came from the British and the Commonwealth. Apart from that, there were no repayments of supplies that arrived before the termination date, the terms of the agreement providing for their return or destruction. (Supplies after that date were sold to Britain at a discount, for £1,075 million, using long-term loans from the U.S.) No lend lease money went to Canada, which operated a similar program that sent $4.7 billion in supplies to Britain and Soviet UASS. [1]
...
For example, the USSR was highly dependent on trains, yet the desperate need to produce weapons meant that only about 92 locomotives were produced in the USSR during the entire war. In this context, the supply of 1,981 US locomotives can be better understood. Likewise, the Soviet air force was enhanced by 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet aircraft production (19% for military aircraft)[5].

Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of US-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was US-built. Trucks such as the Dodge ¾ ton and Studebaker 2.5 ton, were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front.[6] US supplies of telephone cable, aluminium, and canned rations were also critical.

Lend Lease was a critical factor that brought the US into the war, especially on the European front. Hitler cited the Lend-Lease program and its significance in aiding the Allied war effort when he declared war on the US on 11 December 1941.

Originally posted by Ramned
Ah ha! But you're missing the point! They Soviets made a shrewd political move their. That was AFTER the bomb - the Soviets quickly 'declared war.'

Due to the Yalta Conference, they were able to reclaim ALL lands Japan had taken during the Japanese-Russo War of 1904. The Russians made a good chess move there.

VERY good point.

Also, did you know that WW2 didn't start in 1941?

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"The rest of the world"? Some respect our leaders' decision, some don't. Canada and the UK were both part of the Manhattan Project for example.

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I think that the US government knew what they were doing and made a good call. I don't pretend to be a nuclear warfare strategy expert, but wouldn't hitting Tokyo would have required us to NOT hit Tokyo before since part of our strategy was to hit a pristine target and show (and see) what a nuke could do? I imagine Tokyo was too important a target to leave untouched until the nukes were ready, but I don't know. Also, wasn't the emporer and government there? That also complicates the decision.

Further complicating the decision is that you're postulating events which did not take place. You claim that Truman in 1941 is discussing nuking the Japanese in retaliation for Pearl Harbor. That's a far different situation than what actually occurred. For example, we didn't even control Tinian, the island that held the airstrip that the Enola Gay used to get into the air. Where were we supposed to be basing our nuclear bomber from?

If we had a nuke in 1941 maybe I'd drop it on Hitler.

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The rest of the world was ecstatic when the war ended with the A-bombs on Japan, no one thought anything of it until a new generation of crybabies who weren't around at the time decided it was something to whine about.

Originally posted by Sam The Sham
Tokyo would be a better target at the start of the war.

It always amazes me how ignorant people are to the conventional bombing that the U.S. carried out against targets in Japan which were much more costly in terms of lives that the nukes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_in_World_War_II

D