Originally posted by no1marauderGood grief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/how can us right wingers stop the damn colored folks from voting
How can anyone debate that? It is just an accusation of a bad motive. Anyone can throw accusations like that. And no matter what our true thinking on the subject, it is impossible to disprove a disparaging accusation about motive.
Hypothetically if every right winger you've debated on this issue was willing to cheat to help his side get elected, don't you think they'd be more than happy to have black Republicans vote?
Just for the record, democrats in the US through out history were the ones trying to keep black folks from voting.
But you've got to find a way to project your racism on everything so you can pat yourself on the back about how noble you are.
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Originally posted by Eladar
How many countries in the world do not have a voter identification requirement in place to vote?
If a person is able to get an id card, but is too lazy to get it, then does requiring one take away rights? Perhaps, but it isn't the right to vote, it is the right to be lazy.
Of course there is the flip side of the issue which is why almost all countries require identification, fraud.
How many countries in the world do not have a voter identification requirement in place to vote?
We have an electoral register in the UK. Every October, each householder gets a form to fill in, with which to list every adult occupant of the property. The list duly sent off, the names are entered on the register.
On election day, we go to our local polling station and say our name and address. The official asks us - are you [name]? We say yes. Job done, we get our voting slip.
I walk the streets of my town at whatever time of day or night it pleases me to do so. No policeman or other official demands that I identify myself. If they did I would tell them it was not their business unless they can confirm that I am suspected of criminal intent.
Asked for an ID I would be stumped. I do not carry such a thing and do not have to. Why would I? I already know who I am thanks.
Of course the UK is a backwater at the end of the universe. What do we know about democracy?
Originally posted by EladarNo there is voter fraud sometimes and multiple voting sometimes and prosecutions happen periodically. The question is, to what extent are we prepared to sacrifice our freedoms and dignity to the demands of the state and its agencies for control. The answer seems to be a lot less than you guys seem willing to sacrifice in the interests of your ideology.
I guess in the UK people can simply lie and vote multiple times. I guess the UK is a country of honest people who would never do such a thing. That's two countries that do not require ID to vote.
When you impose unreasonable conditions (or any conditions) on voting, then it is your own freedoms you are trampling. Apparently that does not make you too unhappy.
Sadly though, the UK is busily throwing away freedoms in other aspects of life, yielding arbitrary power to officialdom out of a fear that someone, somewhere might be cheating, maybe, perhaps. Small minded jealousies seditiously eat away at the quality of life for everyone. Certain types of politicians know all too well how to feed our fears and jealousy.
Originally posted by EladarIn NY and most States, picture IDs are not required. I go to my polling station, give my name and they pull out a book with every voter in that district's name in it and a place to sign next to your name. Easy.
I guess in the UK people can simply lie and vote multiple times. I guess the UK is a country of honest people who would never do such a thing. That's two countries that do not require ID to vote.
Hardly any countries require ID to vote.
Originally posted by EladarIn Texas you might have to travel 100 miles or more to get an ID.
People who do not have ID's are too lazy to get them. They are free.
Suppose you are elderly and don't drive? Are you "lazy" if you don't trek a 100 miles?
And your North Carolina example gave an extensive list of other documents required before you can get your "free" ID. One, a certified copy of a birth certificate, costs something everywhere. Why should people who have voted for decades all of a sudden have to produce ID? Just because right wingers are intent on suppressing the vote of certain segments of the population. Big Government Republicanism.
Originally posted by techsouthWhat a joke. Whatever happened 50+ years ago, it is Republicans who are now championing voter suppression measures aimed primarily at people of color who have the good sense to overwhelming reject right wing ideology. You and the others can pretend it's just some amazing coincidence that requiring picture ID disenfranchises minorities at a much higher rate but you're not fooling anyone.
Good grief.
How can anyone debate that? It is just an accusation of a bad motive. Anyone can throw accusations like that. And no matter what our true thinking on the subject, it is impossible to disprove a disparaging accusation about motive.
Hypothetically if [b]every right winger you've debated on this issue was willing to cheat to help his ...[text shortened]... o project your racism on everything so you can pat yourself on the back about how noble you are.[/b]
Originally posted by finneganFreedom means making it easy to fix elections through voter fraud? You have a sick point of view.
No there is voter fraud sometimes and multiple voting sometimes and prosecutions happen periodically. The question is, to what extent are we prepared to sacrifice our freedoms and dignity to the demands of the state and its agencies for control. The answer seems to be a lot less than you guys seem willing to sacrifice in the interests of your ideology.
...[text shortened]... or everyone. Certain types of politicians know all too well how to feed our fears and jealousy.
Originally posted by no1marauderWhat percentage of the population would have to travel that far?
In Texas you might have to travel 100 miles or more to get an ID.
Suppose you are elderly and don't drive? Are you "lazy" if you don't trek a 100 miles?
And your North Carolina example gave an extensive list of other documents required before you can get your "free" ID. One, a certified copy of a birth certificate, costs someth ...[text shortened]... ent on suppressing the vote of certain segments of the population. Big Government Republicanism.
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Originally posted by EladarNot sure; what difference does it make?
What percentage of the population would have to travel that far?
To get your voter ID card you have to go in person to a Department of Public Safety office. There are 254 counties in Texas; 81 don't have such an office and another 34 counties have offices open only for two weekdays a week or less. http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legal-work/Complaint.pdf
paragraph 45(b)