What is Mass Formation Psychosis?

@shavixmir said
Funny how you think you’re correct, even when everyone and every government and every expert and every health authority is telling you you are wrong.

Do you suffer from hallucinations, by any chance?

Nobody in government is telling me I am wrong. The FDA says viral vectors are gene therapy and viral vectors do NOT alter DNA. Also, Malone didn't make up the term. You are wrong again.

https://covidvaccinesideeffects.com/mattias-desmet-on-mass-formation-psychosis/

@metal-brain said
Viral vectors are gene therapy and they do not alter genes or DNA.
Do you disagree with that fact?

It is not a fact, as you would have known had you read, rather than kneejerked to, the pages you quote. So yes, I disagree with it.

@shallow-blue said
It is not a fact, as you would have known had you read, rather than kneejerked to, the pages you quote. So yes, I disagree with it.

So your position is that viral vector vaccines are not viral vectors?
Is that seriously what you are saying?

@metal-brain said
So your position is that viral vector vaccines are not viral vectors?
Is that seriously what you are saying?

Learn to read.

And stop doing this:

Can you read? Either answer no or not sure.

@shavixmir said
Learn to read.

And stop doing this:

Can you read? Either answer no or not sure.

Is your position that viral vector vaccines are not viral vectors?
If you are not in psychosis why does that seem normal to you?
Let me say it again to see if you see normalcy in that statement.

Viral vector vaccines are not viral vectors. If that statement seems normal to you I think you are hallucinating. mRNA gene therapy does not alter DNA. If you can prove all mRNA gene therapy alters DNA you can prove me wrong. That should not be hard to do if it is true.

@metal-brain said
Is your position that viral vector vaccines are not viral vectors?
If you are not in psychosis why does that seem normal to you?
Let me say it again to see if you see normalcy in that statement.

Viral vector vaccines are not viral vectors. If that statement seems normal to you I think you are hallucinating. mRNA gene therapy does not alter DNA. If you can prove all mRNA gene therapy alters DNA you can prove me wrong. That should not be hard to do if it is true.

Gaslighting has no effect on me.
Neither does your absurd framing.

I’ve answered all your questions before.

@shavixmir said
Gaslighting has no effect on me.
Neither does your absurd framing.

I’ve answered all your questions before.

mRNA gene therapy does not alter DNA. If you can prove all mRNA gene therapy alters DNA you can prove me wrong. That should not be hard to do if it is true.

I will bet that you cannot prove it by the end of the month. The usual terms. Agreed?

@metal-brain said
Funny how I proved covid gene vaccines exist, but they still are not covid vaccines.

Psychosis. Denial of reality.

And do you ever hear voices?

@suzianne said
And do you ever hear voices?

I have never heard your voice. Do you hear mine?

@athousandyoung said
After 7 pages of talk about gene vaccines, gene therapy and viral vectors I'm still not sure what you are arguing about.

Shav thinks viral vector vaccines are not viral vectors. That is a good example of denial of reality. That is what psychosis is, denial of reality to uphold a false narrative.

All he has to do is prove all mRNA gene therapy alters DNA to prove me wrong. He cannot do that because gene therapy does not have to alter DNA. That is a false assertion put out by fake fact checkers. That is the false narrative he clings to by denying reality.

@athousandyoung said
After 7 pages of talk about gene vaccines, gene therapy and viral vectors I'm still not sure what you are arguing about.

He keeps calling Covid vaccines "gene vaccines". Anti-vaxxers wrongly use this term to accuse vaccines of being used to alter DNA. To address this, the CDC explicitly states that vaccines don't change or alter DNA, which has been shown to MB.

MB now concedes that vaccines don't alter DNA but keeps calling them 'gene vaccines" (in the way he claims) to make other false claims about Covid. It's been pointed out to MB that Covid vaccines are not "gene vaccines" but he keeps claiming they are, simply because both gene therapy and Covid vaccines use viruses as vectors.

MB's logic is thus: gene therapy uses viruses as vectors, so therefore Covid vaccines are "gene vaccines" because they also use viruses as vectors.

MB keeps making this false connection even though it's been explained multiple times that gene therapy uses viral vectors in completely different ways, and that vaccines don't even possess the ability to alter genes like vectors in gene therapy do. MB keeps claiming Covid vaccines are a from of gene therapy; they're not.

During this thread, MB went from all caps shouting that viruses (vectors) in gene therapy "don't alter genes" (and was refuted with links) to saying "well, they don't have to alter genes" to be gene therapy. This is technically true, and all MB needs to claim some sort of victory after being refuted time and time again.

So where we're at now: MB admits vaccines don't alter genes, but still claims vaccines are gene therapy because gene therapy doesn't *have* to use vectors to alter genes, even though they can, unlike vaccines.

In short, MB just can't admit being wrong.

@vivify said
He keeps calling Covid vaccines "gene vaccines". Anti-vaxxers wrongly use this term to accuse vaccines of being used to alter DNA. To address this, the CDC explicitly states that vaccines don't change or alter DNA, which has been shown to MB.

MB now concedes that vaccines don't alter DNA but keeps calling them 'gene vaccines" (in the way he claims) to make other false cla ...[text shortened]... to alter genes, even though they can, unlike vaccines.

In short, MB just can't admit being wrong.

COVID vaccines ARE gene vaccines. They do not alter DNA.

Normal vaccines are either living but crippled viruses or dead viruses. In this case the virus is not being used as a vector but as the target of the immune response. These vaccines work because the cells of the immune system encounter the proteins on the crippled/dead virus and then respond with antibodies that attack those proteins.

The first new gene vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, instead of having actual virus in them, have mRNA in them.

DNA is like the hard drive of a computer. A gene in DNA is the information needed to make a protein. mRNA is like the printout of the instructions on how to build a specific protein and it is technically also called a gene because it has the same information as the DNA gene. The mRNA is read by the cell which then produces the viral proteins itself which are then encountered by the immune system as above.

The newest Johnson and Johnson vaccine is different. It uses a virus (a viral vector) which has had it's DNA swapped for the DNA of the COVID virus. It sneaks this DNA all the way to the nucleus and places it there. Then the cell naturally reads the DNA and produces the mRNA and proceeds as above.

This adenovirus is not a retrovirus. This means that it cannot actually integrate the viral DNA into the person's genome but the DNA just sits nearby in the same area.

HIV is a retrovirus which actually does modify peoples' genetic code at least temporarily and retroviruses are the tools used for this kind of deep genetic editing. There are no retroviral vaccines yet that I am aware of.

Metal Brain is in the right to some extent in that these vaccines ARE gene vaccines and those who argue against him are wrong in this respect. However he does not seem to be able to comprehend or discuss the specifics of what that means but just rants about the scary sounding names. As a rule I find it a waste of time to argue or debate with him about anything because he's emotionally invested in his positions and is deeply embedded in the world of conspiracies. His "sources" are 95% conspiracy ranting with short clips taken from other sources and then endlessly spun by commentors.

However arguing with him that the COVID vaccines are not gene vaccines is not correct.

So we have peoples DNA, which can be modified with retroviruses. This is what many call "gene therapy". There are no COVID vaccines like this.

Then there is viral DNA, which is placed next to peoples' DNA via a viral vector which is not a retrovirus. J&J

Then there is mRNA which is injected into the cell outside of the nucleus. Pfizer and Moderna. This and the two above are gene vaccines.

Then there are old vaccines which put the proteins directly into the cell. Smallpox vaccines worked like this. There are no COVID vaccines like this that I know of.

DNA=>mRNA=>protein and it is the protein which the immune system responds to. These different technologies just provide the proteins via different mechanisms - directly, one step back via mRNA, two steps back via DNA, and retrovirus which integrates the DNA into the patients DNA. This last one does not exist for COVID.

@athousandyoung said
COVID vaccines ARE gene vaccines.

No, they're not. Unless you, moronically, accept Metal's definition of the term "gene vaccines", rather than the scientific and medical community's definition of that term.

I'd rather trust a doctor's definition of a medical term than a psychotic's or a Mexitard's definition of it.

@shallow-blue said
No, they're not. Unless you, moronically, accept Metal's definition of the term "gene vaccines", rather than the scientific and medical community's definition of that term.

I'd rather trust a doctor's definition of a medical term than a psychotic's or a Mexitard's definition of it.

You are wrong and I am right.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12667025/

Gene vaccines are a new approach to immunization and immunotherapy in which, rather than a live or inactivated organism (or a subunit thereof), one or more genes that encode proteins of the pathogen are delivered.