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@shallow-blue saidPlease provide a doctor's definition then.
No, they're not. Unless you, moronically, accept Metal's definition of the term "gene vaccines", rather than the scientific and medical community's definition of that term.
I'd rather trust a doctor's definition of a medical term than a psychotic's or a Mexitard's definition of it.
This "Mexitard" majored in Biochemistry at university and as part of that I took a virology class and an immunology class. Now, I was never a good student, but what exactly in your background as a computer programmer makes you an expert in this field? And if you aren't then what are your sources?
BOW DOWN TO YOUR HISPANIC OVERLORD NETHERLANDER!
https://www.worldatlas.com/geography/spanish-empire.html
(That's you up there in northern Europe)
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@athousandyoung saidYes. But in my post I put (in parenthesis) the words "in the way he claims". I did that for a reason; that he's technically right, but not "in the way he claims".
COVID vaccines ARE gene vaccines.
MB thinks vaccines are a form of gene therapy; his use of "gene vaccines" have that subtext, which makes him wrong. And that subtext has it's own subtext; anti-vaxxers who believe the government is using vaccines to alter genes; a claim that the CDC had to specifically address on it's site.
I agree with the rest of your post.
@vivify saidThis thread is full of people saying the COVID vaccines are not gene vaccines which is making MB look like an expert. This should stop.
Yes. But in my post I put (in parenthesis) the words "in the way he claims". I did that for a reason; that he's technically right, but not "in the way he claims".
MB thinks vaccines are a form of gene therapy; his use of "gene vaccines" have that subtext, which makes him wrong. And that subtext has it's own subtext; anti-vaxxers who believe the government is using vacc ...[text shortened]... claim that the CDC had to specifically address on it's site.
I agree with the rest of your post.
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@athousandyoung saidYou're right. But after spamming thread after thread with the same false information, imagine having to differentiate MBs use of "gene vaccines" with reality each and every single time.
This thread is full of people saying the COVID vaccines are not gene vaccines which is making MB look like an expert. This should stop.
Notice how exasperated some other posters in this thread are with MB where they refuse to even bother correcting him. At some point it's just easier to say "they're not gene vaccines" rather than "the viruses used by vaccines are not used in the same way as vectors used in gene therapy and can't affect cells in the same manner".
Still, you have a point.
@vivify saidI'm so sick of MB it's hard to put into words.
You're right. But after spamming thread after thread with the same false information, imagine having to differentiate MBs use of "gene vaccines" with reality each and every single time.
Notice how exasperated some other posters in this thread are with MB where they refuse to even bother correcting him. At some point it's just easier to say "they're not gene vaccines" rat ...[text shortened]... ctors used in gene therapy and can't affect cells in the same manner".
Still, you have a point.
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@vivify said"He keeps calling Covid vaccines "gene vaccines". Anti-vaxxers wrongly use this term to accuse vaccines of being used to alter DNA. "
He keeps calling Covid vaccines "gene vaccines". Anti-vaxxers wrongly use this term to accuse vaccines of being used to alter DNA. To address this, the CDC explicitly states that vaccines don't change or alter DNA, which has been shown to MB.
MB now concedes that vaccines don't alter DNA but keeps calling them 'gene vaccines" (in the way he claims) to make other false cla ...[text shortened]... to alter genes, even though they can, unlike vaccines.
In short, MB just can't admit being wrong.
I have never claimed "gene vaccines" alter DNA. They do not have to. This has been explained to you. Gene vaccines, genetic vaccines. That is what they are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_vaccine
Gene vaccines clearly exist. Harvard wrote an article about them. Gene vaccine is the title. Here is a government website confirming they use gene therapy technology. In fact, the title to the article is called "Development of COVID-19 vaccines utilizing gene therapy technology".
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33772572/
"vaccines don't even possess the ability to alter genes like vectors in gene therapy do"
That is a lie. You made that up. You have no source of information to prove it. You are making false assertions to avoid accepting reality.
I just proved covid vaccines use gene therapy technology.
What is left for you to deny?
@shallow-blue said" Unless you, moronically, accept Metal's definition of the term "gene vaccines"
No, they're not. Unless you, moronically, accept Metal's definition of the term "gene vaccines", rather than the scientific and medical community's definition of that term.
I'd rather trust a doctor's definition of a medical term than a psychotic's or a Mexitard's definition of it.
Fine. What is the definition of the term "gene vaccine"?
@athousandyoung saidYou are spreading misinformation. You are using another fake fact checker. Here is an excerpt from the link you posted:
Articles like the following emphasize how these mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy i.e. they don't use retroviruses.
Gene therapy is not the same as gene vaccines.
https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/
"The mRNA from the vaccines does not enter the cell nucleus or interact with the DNA at all, so it does not constitute gene therapy"
That is false information. Most of those fact checkers do not even do any research before making that false claim. They plagiarize it from other self proclaimed fact checkers that are spreading that misinformation.
mRNA technology is considered gene therapy according to the FDA. You must prove ALL mRNA gene therapy alters DNA to be correct.
I challenge you to bet. I'll bet you cannot prove ALL mRNA gene therapy alters DNA by february 14th. If you can prove that by that date I will create a thread saying athousandyoung was right and I was wrong. If you fail to prove it by that date you create a thread with the title saying Metal Brain was right and I was wrong with a concise explanation of what you were unable to prove.
Agreed?
@metal-brain saidNobody agrees with you, because you are wrong.
You are spreading misinformation. You are using another fake fact checker. Here is an excerpt from the link you posted:
"The mRNA from the vaccines does not enter the cell nucleus or interact with the DNA at all, so it does not constitute gene therapy"
That is false information. Most of those fact checkers do not even do any research before making that false claim. ...[text shortened]... in was right and I was wrong with a concise explanation of what you were unable to prove.
Agreed?
As has been pointed out a million times by now.
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@metal-brain saidYou say you never claimed vaccines alter DNA then call me a liar for saying vaccines don't alter DNA.
I have never claimed "gene vaccines" alter DNA.
"vaccines don't even possess the ability to alter genes like vectors in gene therapy do"
That is a lie. You made that up. You have no source of information to prove it. You are making false assertions to avoid accepting reality.
Hey AThousandYoung, you see what I'm talking about with this guy?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=10506:covid%20vaccine%20change%20your%20dna:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen😛TN:FY21
COVID-19 vaccines do not change or interact with your DNA in any way.
I've lost count how many times I've showed you this same link The only reason I'm even responding to you is to show AThousandYoung what I was talking about earlier.
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@metal-brain saidGene vaccines are not the same as gene therapy. There is no biological mechanism for mRNA to modify DNA except via the reverse transcriptase enzyme found in retroviruses. Without DNA modification there is no gene therapy.
"He keeps calling Covid vaccines "gene vaccines". Anti-vaxxers wrongly use this term to accuse vaccines of being used to alter DNA. "
I have never claimed "gene vaccines" alter DNA. They do not have to. This has been explained to you. Gene vaccines, genetic vaccines. That is what they are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_vaccine
Gene vaccines clearly exist ...[text shortened]... reality.
I just proved covid vaccines use gene therapy technology.
What is left for you to deny?
It’s kind of like trying to modify a document on your hard drive by feeding hard copy printed paper documents into the printer. It doesn’t work like that.
You need a scanner to do that (reverse transcriptase).
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@vivify saidYes of course I already said it’s a waste of time to argue with MB. His mistake is to equate mRNA vaccines with gene therapy. But there’s no point arguing with him about it.
You say you never claimed vaccines alter DNA then call me a liar for saying vaccines don't alter DNA.
Hey AThousandYoung, you see what I'm talking about with this guy?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=10506:covid%20vaccine%20change%20your%20dna:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen😛TN:FY21
[b]COVID-19 vaccines do not change or interact with your D ...[text shortened]... e only reason I'm even responding to you is to show AThousandYoung what I was talking about earlier.
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Apparently adenoviruses can modify DNA after all:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy
Most of these approaches utilize adeno-associated viruses (AAVs) and lentiviruses for performing gene insertions...
Gene therapy using an adenovirus vector. In some cases, the adenovirus will insert the new gene into a cell. If the treatment is successful, the new gene will make a functional protein to treat a disease.
So there is some room for MB’s argument with respect to the J&J DNA vaccine with the viral vector.
But not the mRNA nonsense.