@averagejoe1 saidYou guys are conservatives. You have churches you can go to every Sunday to be obedient. 😛
@AverageJoe1
If I shoot a rabbit, i can eat it, or i can give it to someone who is less fortunate than me. That is my decision, and the reward is generally always in helping another person. The problem we conservatives have is that you want us to be obedient to a societal rule that tells me what to do with the rabbit. Am I wrong?
@averagejoe1 said"At least I got you thinking."
At least I got you thinking. Your first para is all about what YOU want me to do, as if it is any of your business about my rabbit activity. If you want me to stop killing rabbits, I do not have to. So your statement falls flat. And what you say reeks of sponsoring people to be dependent. There are enough rabbits for everyone, why would someone think I owe them a rab ...[text shortened]... paint your house, and man, you better do it or society will get after you!!!!! It is MY Business!!
Ha! Well done oh great thinker you. So lucky to have you around to challenge me.
"Your first para is all about what YOU want me to do, as if it is any of your business about my rabbit activity."
It is. If you live in a society, what you do affects others.
"If you want me to stop killing rabbits, I do not have to"
The laws the majority put in place beg to differ. So does the police that everyone in society pays to enforce the laws.
"And what you say reeks of sponsoring people to be dependent"
They are. We all are. Not one single individual is independent. I guess there might be a loon living in the woods somewhere, eating only what he grows and kills. But even they need to buy somethings others made at some point.
"There are enough rabbits for everyone"
Obviously that isn't true
"As to the 2nd para 'built by others 'stuff, I paid for all that, including the road. "
You paid with money, a concept invented by societies to make transactions between individuals easier. It is a representation of what the rest of society thinks your labor is worth. It's still not your money, you depend on everyone else appreciating your labor.
"So dont think for a minute that I am 'dependent' , because they are equally dependent on me to give them money for what they do."
The second sentence, though true, doesn't follow the first. Not surprised simple logic eludes you, we can just let it go. But you're right. Others are dependent on you as well. Everyone depends on each other, we all must and should contribute to make society a better place.
@averagejoe1 saidWhat are you even talking about?
You do indeed take from succesful rich and give to lesser earners. Bernie, Biden, Obama 101.
Say there is a 100-mile highway. 1 mile for each year of life. Buffet is at mile 90, bezos mile 69. My 20 yr old grandson is at mile 20. Should the government allow my son to run up to the 70 and 80 mile range and take money and stuff from thise guys? Note that my son has 70 or ...[text shortened]... g.
My grandson will have to cut his own path. But you fellers, this does not compute, does it.
Your analogies fail on every level, not the least of which is having nothing to do with the conversation.
@averagejoe1 saidHow about we are driven by the Common Good, not Common Greed.
I have. Marauder will tell you that he bested me on a point we Sing about 10 days ago. He was right I was wrong. However in the way of enlightenment, I don’t mean to enlighten us to think in the way y’all do, to run governments the way y’all think we should, such as that. I’m talking about to enlighten us as to your thought process to think so differently than we do. That. Doesn’t interest you??
@suzianne saidIt is a simple analogy, Suzianne . Relax. Would it be OK to send the 20 year old up the road to collect from the 80 yr olds that which they have earned, or would it better, for Zahlanzi's fairy society, to tell him to work his way up the road like the older guys did?
What are you even talking about?
Your analogies fail on every level, not the least of which is having nothing to do with the conversation.
Libs get so emotional , cannot answer questions. Zero thought process.
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@zahlanzi saidSentence 2: So, you are saying it is your business.....what I do with my rabbits (my money which is the analogy). Very interesting, Zahlinzi. I think not. It is not your business. Unless it is your communistic collectivist society, which you want to put on us.
"At least I got you thinking."
Ha! Well done oh great thinker you. So lucky to have you around to challenge me.
"Your first para is all about what YOU want me to do, as if it is any of your business about my rabbit activity."
It is. If you live in a society, what you do affects others.
"If you want me to stop killing rabbits, I do not have to"
The laws the majorit ...[text shortened]... l. Everyone depends on each other, we all must and should contribute to make society a better place.
Sentence 3: No one is independent?. I myself am. Yes, other people provide goods and services which I buy and pay for. Go ahead with your liberal interpretations and say I am dependent on those people. And on the road builders for which I pay taxes. Laughable.
Sentence 4: In this analogy, rabbits being money, (kill and eat rabbits, = earn and spend money) Yes, there is enough money for everyone. Handy Andy never got analogies, either.
Sentence 5: I agreed with you of course, up to 'its still not my money." My daughter just made $10 on her lemonade stand, put it in a jar which has the word "Mine" written on it. Is it her money? Very interesting again, Zahlanzi.
Sentence 6: Already answered.
Keep 'em coming.
🤔
@averagejoe1 saidLet's examine your analogy a little more closely:
You do indeed take from succesful rich and give to lesser earners. Bernie, Biden, Obama 101.
Say there is a 100-mile highway. 1 mile for each year of life. Buffet is at mile 90, bezos mile 69. My 20 yr old grandson is at mile 20. Should the government allow my son to run up to the 70 and 80 mile range and take money and stuff from thise guys? Note that my son has 70 or ...[text shortened]... g.
My grandson will have to cut his own path. But you fellers, this does not compute, does it.
Who made the highway?
Who maintains the highway?
@no1marauder saidI’ll bite. The state council taxes people yearly to raise moneyto construct roads, among ither things. Over the lives of Bezos and Buffet, part of their taxes paid for the road. Jesus.
Let's examine your analogy a little more closely:
Who made the highway?
Who maintains the highway?
I could be cute and you say it isnt a paved road, but, tell us, what are you getting at?
@averagejoe1 saidSo the People made the highway.
I’ll bite. The state council taxes people yearly to raise moneyto construct roads, among ither things. Over the lives of Bezos and Buffet, part of their taxes paid for the road. Jesus.
I could be cute and you say it isnt a paved road, but, tell us, what are you getting at?
The People pay for the highway.
So who should make the rules regarding the use of the highway?
@no1marauder saidThe state legislature?
So the People made the highway.
The People pay for the highway.
So who should make the rules regarding the use of the highway?
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@AverageJoe1
Yeah, why not have a full republican party takeover of the entire US government, house, senate, WH and Scotus. When that happens you can be very sure there will be ZERO governing and ONLY in fukking up the voting system so they stay in power permanently. Forget adding folks to medicare, helping with child care while parents are at work, forget infrastructure plans and most of all, FORGET fighting Covid, let the chips, actually DEAD people, fall where they may because republicans, the leaders, care NOTHING about their constituents and ONLY about their own personal power and how to keep it FOREVER, and FUK the democratic system.
@averagejoe1 said"I think not. It is not your business"
Sentence 2: So, you are saying it is your business.....what I do with my rabbits (my money which is the analogy). Very interesting, Zahlinzi. I think not. It is not your business. Unless it is your communistic collectivist society, which you want to put on us.
Sentence 3: No one is independent?. I myself am. Yes, other people provide goods and services which I bu ...[text shortened]... ? Very interesting again, Zahlanzi.
Sentence 6: Already answered.
Keep 'em coming.
🤔
Au contraire my randian wannabe not-friend
It very much is my business how many rabbits you are killing, if you kill too many that they become extinct, if you're paying enough taxes out of those rabbits, if you bribe politicians so they allow you to kill more and more rabbits, to pay your rabbit killing workers starvation wages, to disregard rabbit processing safety measures.
A lot of what you do is in fact everyone's business. You live in a society, you should pay taxes and obey it's rules.
"No one is independent?. I myself am. Yes, other people provide goods and services which I buy and pay for. Go ahead with your liberal interpretations and say I am dependent on those people. And on the road builders for which I pay taxes. "
Well, being independent doesn't mean "except for the ones i depend on, i don't depend on anyone"
Yes, you pay taxes. Those are what i am interested in. Sanders doesn't want to take all your rabbits and make you work for the government in the nationalized rabbit killing industry. Sanders (and I) wants you to pay rabbit taxes.. A lot more taxes the more rabbits you kill. And use those taxes to provide healthcare to your rabbit killing workers.
"Sentence 4: In this analogy, rabbits being money, (kill and eat rabbits, = earn and spend money) Yes, there is enough money for everyone."
Yes, there are. You may have accidentally stumbled upon the main issue. Money being an equivalence to the amount of productivity existent, there is enough money for everyone. At the moment however the US simply decides that a handful of people deserve to have the majority of that money while the overwhelming majority of people barely have the basic necessities covered.
"I agreed with you of course, up to 'its still not my money." "
I haven't said that.
"My daughter just made $10 on her lemonade stand, put it in a jar which has the word "Mine" written on it. Is it her money? "
Is it because you're dumb or is it because you're a coward that knows he is in a shaky position that you keep offering these anecdotes?
Maybe you realize on some level that giving a real analogy would reveal just how ridiculous your stance is.
The analogy isn't "My daughter made 10$ on her lemonade stand". The analogy is "My daughter made 10 billion dollars by paying starvation wages to lemon pickers, bought politicians and influenced elections so she can pay no taxes on those billions of dollars, uses lead water from Flint to cut down on lemonade costs, sells her lemonade for little profit or even none to drive other lemonade manufacturers out of business, all while her overworked workers have to go on social programs that we, non billionaires pay taxes for. And I, the randian intellectual fraud, want to perpetuate this state of affairs and make it worse because everyone can become a billionaire and screw over the system"
I said it before, it's hilarious how you people present the issue as if we, socialists want to rob little girls selling lemonade out of half of 10$". Well, if it's immoral to take half of someone making 10$ income, it must be immoral to take half of someone making 10 billion (marginal tax doesn't work like that but i must use simple concepts for you).
Incidentally, the fictional daughter making 10$ out of her lemonade stand would qualify as small business and i would support them paying little to no taxes. Plus with socialized healthcare they wouldn't have the burden of paying healthcare benefits for their workers (assuming ofc one lives in a civilized country which, unlike the US, makes it illegal to have workers work full-time minus one minute so they don't qualify as full time and thus not being required to pay benefits for them)
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@zahlanzi saidYour post, 3rd from the top above, says, in the 6th paragraph, that ‘it is not my money’. Methinks you are in a frenzy, not unlike that of the Sonhouse. A lot of what you say, which is too much for one post, not unlike the Duchess, has some truthin it, and i am only left with what i assume you think will fix our imperfect society.
"I think not. It is not your business"
Au contraire my randian wannabe not-friend
It very much is my business how many rabbits you are killing, if you kill too many that they become extinct, if you're paying enough taxes out of those rabbits, if you bribe politicians so they allow you to kill more and more rabbits, to pay your rabbit killing workers starvation wages, to di ...[text shortened]... one minute so they don't qualify as full time and thus not being required to pay benefits for them)
Everyone put everything that they own in one big basket. Everyone contribute all of their abilities to society in an equal fashion, and at the end of the day, everyone divide everything up. That way everyone will have all medical covered, they will all have a house, they will all have transportation, they will all have food and lots of days off.
Harmony will abound, there will be no more killings in Chicago, no one with any more money than anyone else, we can close down the House of representatives and the Senate, and everyone live comfortably by collecting from the basket, which would be managed by one remaining entity of the government.
It will take a hell of a long time for conservatives to get used to such a system. Liberals, you can fly kites and be immediately happy.
Did i get it about right? Do you have a different idea?
PS. Please don’t get like Sonhouse. And You could start a fresh thread on any of the subjects that you’ve written about.
PS. Your comments about the rabbit went right over my head. I shoot a rabbit, is my rabbit ...oh yes I paid for a shooting license. I make money, it is my money. Oh yes I pay taxes out of the money I make. I guess there is something in that scenario which you would like to change but I sure didn’t see it.