@no1marauder saidIt is in the news, you are being indoctrinated by lib news sources. EG, this child credit thing is another farce, lie, of Biden. the guy who thinks he can pay for everything by taxing ONLY the rich. Can you be so gullible? Printing it now, then they replace it or pay for it with money from the rich (the job creators) Do you consider yourself short sighted? I do.
US GNP is up about 1% from what it was in the 4th Quarter of 2019. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GNP
Where are these "trillions of dollars" Biden is "printing up"?
The middle class will find a surprise on the tail end of the child credit, his latest vote-getting scheme. You see, the majority of them will not meet proper criteria and will have to pay a tax on it. I teach economies, so i got a feel for it. I have to say 'printing up',,,,,you wanna know why? Because he will need it before it is collected, from the rich, and from the middle class. You can't believe they get a free ride, can you?
Yeah, I see your 1% figure. Do ALL libs dwell on the past? You have no idea what is going on.
@averagejoe1 saidLMAO! The GNP figures are official numbers from the Federal Reserve.
It is in the news, you are being indoctrinated by lib news sources. EG, this child credit thing is another farce, lie, of Biden. the guy who thinks he can pay for everything by taxing ONLY the rich. Can you be so gullible? Printing it now, then they replace it or pay for it with money from the rich (the job creators) Do you consider yourself short sighted? I do.
T ...[text shortened]...
Yeah, I see your 1% figure. Do ALL libs dwell on the past? You have no idea what is going on.
It's fairly obvious who is being "indoctrinated", Joe. And no, you don't teach "economies".
@averagejoe1 saidFloyd was murdered.
I would call it respect, Marauder. That is what I hoped from from staff, employees, associates. Respect. I will venture that none of them EVER considered themselves obedient,......you know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You are off the wall.
Police officer. He pulls you over. Good day, officer. Period. Then you or I would wait for for what he has to say. He m ...[text shortened]... nder myself. I think Floyed was an idiot. Did you see the video? He never stopped talking. Idiot.
Police officers aren't supposed to murder you for not being sufficiently obedient to them.
Respect is earned, not expected to someone because they occupy a superior position in a hierarchical society.
For you and Jimmac:
"A hierarchy is a pyramidally-structured organisation composed of a series of grades, ranks, or offices of increasing power, prestige, and (usually) remuneration. Scholars who have investigated the hierarchical form have found that the two primary principles it embodies are domination and exploitation. For example, in his article "What Do Bosses Do?" (Review of Radical Political Economics, 6, 7), a study of the modern factory, Steven Marglin found that the main function of the corporate hierarchy is not greater productive efficiency (as capitalists claim), but greater control over workers, the purpose of such control being more effective exploitation.
Control in a hierarchy is maintained by coercion, that is, by the threat of negative sanctions of one kind or another: physical, economic, psychological, social, etc. Such control, including the repression of dissent and rebellion, therefore necessitates centralisation: a set of power relations in which the greatest control is exercised by the few at the top (particularly the head of the organisation), while those in the middle ranks have much less control and the many at the bottom have virtually none.
Since domination, coercion, and centralisation are essential features of authoritarianism, and as those features are embodied in hierarchies, all hierarchical institutions are authoritarian. "
From Noam Chomsky: ""Let's take a look at a corporation. . . [I]f you look at what they are, power goes strictly top down, from the board of directors to managers to lower managers to ultimately the people on the shop floor, typing messages, and so on. There's no flow of power or planning from the bottom up. People can disrupt and make suggestions, but the same is true of a slave society. The structure of power is linear, from the top down." [Keeping the Rabble in Line, p. 237]"
""Most factories are like military dictatorships. Those at the bottom are privates, the supervisors are sergeants, and on up through the hierarchy. The organisation can dictate everything from our clothing and hair style to how we spend a large portion of our lives, during work. It can compel overtime; it can require us to see a company doctor if we have a medical complaint; it can forbid us free time to engage in political activity; it can suppress freedom of speech, press and assembly -- it can use ID cards and armed security police, along with closed-circuit TVs to watch us; it can punish dissenters with 'disciplinary layoffs' (as GM calls them), or it can fire us. We are forced, by circumstances, to accept much of this, or join the millions of unemployed. . . In almost every job, we have only the 'right' to quit. Major decisions are made at the top and we are expected to obey, whether we work in an ivory tower or a mine shaft." ["For Democracy Where We Work: A rationale for social self-management", Reinventing Anarchy, Again, Howard J. Ehrlich (ed.), pp. 193-4]"
http://www.spunk.org/library/intro/faq/sp001547/secA2.html#seca210
So the great majority of the People in a capitalist State work for others in organizations where they have no power. This is completely contrary to our Nature as already shown. Thus, such a system can only be maintained by propaganda and force.
@no1marauder saidI said above, the cop murdered Flooyd and should never be let out of jail. There is a video of it, no question. So why say something we already know> And why continue your effort to parse the word obedient, trying to stir things up? Andwhy tell me?,,, tell someone else, maybe . I know that the cop was a killer , tell someone who doesn't know. Respect and obedience mean diff things in diff situation........ In an arrest, it is a citizen's duty to respect the authority that was given to the person in authority by the town council . If an altercation ensues, then the citizen should expect that the officer demands obedience from them in the carrying out of his duty. Like, "shut up and get behind that car before you are shot!'. None of that applies in Floyd's case, he was an idiot to argue with the cop, and frankly it never got to obedience .....It skipped over that to resistance. Hey, you could parse 'resistance'. Geez.
Floyd was murdered.
Police officers aren't supposed to murder you for not being sufficiently obedient to them.
Respect is earned, not expected to someone because they occupy a superior position in a hierarchical society.
@no1marauder saidI know those numbers, comparing yesteryear, are true numbers.
LMAO! The GNP figures are official numbers from the Federal Reserve.
It's fairly obvious who is being "indoctrinated", Joe. And no, you don't teach "economies".
@averagejoe1 saidThe point being that the economy can stand the present level of spending without runaway inflation just like it did in the 4th Quarter of 2019.
I know those numbers, comparing yesteryear, are true numbers.
@no1marauder saidWe already are seeing inflation (both in the traditional sense and in shortage of items which is a hidden inflation) and we certainly will have more inflation in the future if we continue our policies of handing out money and raising minimum wages. You may believe these policies are worth it (I don't -- but we certainly don't have to agree) but I think it's incredible to think printing money and raises costs won't lead to inflation.
The point being that the economy can stand the present level of spending without runaway inflation just like it did in the 4th Quarter of 2019.
@no1marauder saidIf I might pull a couple of lines...(Keep in mind, from an acorn a mighty oak grows) Someone took a risk and built a company that provides goods and creates jobs, thousands of them. The someone, or someones, may be rich, which goes with the territory, but libs just can't let that be. They just can't. This is where they get lost with the Chomskys of the world.
For you and Jimmac:
"A hierarchy is a pyramidally-structured organisation composed of a series of grades, ranks, or offices of increasing power, prestige, and (usually) remuneration. Scholars who have investigated the hierarchical form have found that the two primary principles it embodies are domination and exploitation. For example, in his article "What Do Bosses Do? ...[text shortened]... to our Nature as already shown. Thus, such a system can only be maintained by propaganda and force.
Control in a hierarchy. Whistle that down to a company with a a boss, and people under him or them that can be 'bossed', like the head cook in a kitchen. If a sous chef doesn't like it, he can leave. But wait, you mention domination, coercion centralization (whatever that is)..Are you speaking of America? I dont think so.
Then you got the Chomsky quote, where he says, for instance, 'there's no planning from the bottom up.' That is, the guy peeling potatoes in the kitchen is supposed to make plans side by side with the chef? Oh, Marauder.....
Then he mentions slave society. Are you speaking of America?
Your next huge paragraph says that factories are like military dictatorships. Oh, help. He does say that their only 'right' is to quit. Marauder, this is your moment,......what other 'right' should they have? If they do the job they were hired to do, isn't that about it? The Board is upstairs keeping the mill running so that he will have a job. And the Board can dictate ID cards, security police, closed circuit or anything else they want. Here again, do you think they should NOT have a right to do that? It is their company. I am going to come to your house, which is yours and Noam's, and tell you how to run it. Am I getting through here? I would love to debate Noam.
Last para: Guess you are right about the hamburger flipper and McD not having power. But in this land of opportunity, he can have his own hamburger stand and have power. I love this country. Your last two sentences are wrong on their face. Contrary to nature? Ants bring stuff to the Queen ant 24/7.
Last sentence laughable. My firm never used any propaganda or force. Does yours? Our better....whose does?
You are a mess. Chomsky. Like Bernie, prob never had a real job, never signed a paycheck. Oh think I will go to the library tomorrow and learn all about Chomsky. What a guy. He sure has your attention.
@AverageJoe1
What are you really trying to profess in your recitals? What are we to glean? What do you want to happen, in plain english? Besides taking down the rich, the job creators,..... what else, what is the meat of your proposals? Like,, if you were King.
@quackquack saidI doubt it; Trump ran up the deficit to high levels without any type of major increase in inflation.
We already are seeing inflation (both in the traditional sense and in shortage of items which is a hidden inflation) and we certainly will have more inflation in the future if we continue our policies of handing out money and raising minimum wages. You may believe these policies are worth it (I don't -- but we certainly don't have to agree) but I think it's incredible to think printing money and raises costs won't lead to inflation.
I read that 1/3 of the latest increase in the CPI was because of a big jump in the price of used cars. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-12/record-surge-in-used-car-prices-is-key-culprit-in-inflation-jump
So this is a "fluky" result which is unlikely to last into the future. Most economists, both private and at the Fed, regard the recent increases to be transitory.
@averagejoe1 saidJoe, I'm not longer going to respond to posts where you talk about the rich being essential "job creators". I've knocked down that fairy tale sufficiently in enough posts not to take your religious invocation of it seriously.
@AverageJoe1
What are you really trying to profess in your recitals? What are we to glean? What do you want to happen, in plain english? Besides taking down the rich, the job creators,..... what else, what is the meat of your proposals? Like,, if you were King.
The concentration of wealth in fewer hands results in less jobs, not more.
@quackquack
So you would rather have millions dead from covid and jobs lost forever because we could not bring ourselves around to make multitrillion dollar commitments to our economy and infrastructure problems and child care issues which is a BIG deal where poor folks can't afford child care and therefore can't get a real job instead of a 5 dollar an hour under the table shyte job.
But none of THAT bothers republicans who could care less about making actual laws that help poor folks and try to bring them into middle class, that is the LAST thing repubs have on their minds, what little of their own minds they have left that is, being totally hypnotized by that evil WORTHLESS SOCIOPATH EX POTUS TRUMP.
He is EVIL beyond a fukking DOUBT.
@no1marauder saidAbsolute bollocks, in every corporation the CEO has his minions trying to take over the role, they all know there is only an allusion of this unthinking submission. they all wait with some degree of anticipation for the knife in the back. Many animal species fight, even to death to maintain the hierarchy. Obedience, yes, unthinking, Not on my planet. No hair splitting at all.
Hierarchy requires obedience, generally unthinking obedience. Your attempts at hair splitting are unpersuasive.
We, Man, "may" have controlled how the hierarchy works, but it is unavoidable non the less.