Originally posted by CoconutThere is no line. Where is the evidence for this? In fact, there is evidence of the contrary in fossil hominids.
Natural selection. very good. You're right that no intelligent intervention is required for nature to take it's course in this scenario. Animals can even change species over enough time and changes of environment/characteristics. The line is drawn, though, if you say following a human's geneology back far enough, that it was once an ape. That is where thi ...[text shortened]... en accomplished by man. And we are here by chance? But I guess this is a whole other discussion.
Man has evolved and the reason you are claiming we've reached any form of finishing line in evolution can only be a religious one. Note that even if you argue that we are in a stationary state, that doesn't mean the gene pool of humans is immutable. The recorded history of mankind is a dot in the timeline needed for evolution.
The problem with threads like this is that most people misunderstand evolutionary theory. For one thing there have been tons of new ideas and changes in theory since Darwin. The theory presented in Origin and Descent is not the evolutionary theory of today, like Newton's ideas are the basis of modern physics but certainly not the whole story, we now have special relativity and quantum theory and string theory. Humans are not in a stable state or endpoint of evolution, we are still evolving. The process just takes millions of years to happen. People can't really debate if evolution happens, it is scientific fact and has been observed in Fruit Flies and parasites and moths and various bacteria. Natural Selection and Evolution can be proven to happen, the only difference is that religious leaders claim that for some reason humans are immune to these forces and cannot have come from anything different. God must have planted fossil and genetic and phylogenic evidence just to confuse people. No one claims that humans can from monkeys or apes, the theory is that humans and chimps etc. came from a common ancestor.
Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnowYou could have said:
The problem with threads like this is that most people misunderstand evolutionary theory. For one thing there have been tons of new ideas and changes in theory since Darwin. The theory presented in Origin and Descent is not the evolutionary theory of today, like Newton's ideas are the basis of modern physics but certainly not the whole story, we now ...[text shortened]... can from monkeys or apes, the theory is that humans and chimps etc. came from a common ancestor.
The problem with threads like this is that creationists are idiots who can't be reasoned with.
That would have been more to the point and would have saved yourself a lot of typing.
Originally posted by CoconutOh, right. It's because you don't "feel" like it, eh? I think you don't argue about the evidence because you DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!! You're physically incapable of putting together a coherant argument about evolution. All you can do is parrot worn out cliches about Boeing 757s and other similar creationist propaganda.
We are no more stubborn than our evolutionist counterparts. Which is why I don't feel like spending the time to argue evidence.
Originally posted by rwingettI'm sorry you feel that way.
Oh, right. It's because you don't "feel" like it, eh? I think you don't argue about the evidence because you DON'T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!! You're physically incapable of putting together a coherant argument about evolution. All you can do is parrot worn out cliches about Boeing 757s and other similar creationist propaganda.
I've been to two creation vs evolution conferences, read a few books, been in a couple debates about it. I've got a pretty good idea about the whole thing.
The thing is, it's just all been said. We must already have several threads about it floating through the pages of the spirituality and debates forums. Why start it up again when I won't change any minds? I'm sorry that you must strengthen your views by threatening my understanding.
Originally posted by CoconutWho hosted these conferences?
I'm sorry you feel that way.
I've been to two creation vs evolution conferences, read a few books, been in a couple debates about it. I've got a pretty good idea about the whole thing.
The thing is, it's just all been said. We must already have several threads about it floating through the pages of the spirituality and debates forums. Why start it ...[text shortened]... hange any minds? I'm sorry that you must strengthen your views by threatening my understanding.
What were the books you read?
I don't see why everyone gets so vicious about this. I, obviously, believe evolution and I actually know several devout catholics who do as well, but I don't have a problem with informed people believing whatever they want. What bugs me are people who don't know what they are talking about arguing about it. I think everyone should have to at least take a course in evolutionary biology or read a thourough, scientific book about it before arguing for or against evolution. And yes, I have read the bible, gone to church, etc. I decided they were wrong, but I have read the material for both sides of the issue and feel that everyone else should as well. I am against teaching creation in public schools however, since people are usually informed of that at home or church if they care to know and that there is no real evidence for it. If you never go to church or anything, I find it unlikely that you will believe in creationism. Church and schools need to be kept seperate. I am not opposed to teaching alternatives to evolution if it could be guarunteed that the teachers had a good background understanding of evolution and that they were not biasing things towards creation. This is almost impossible to assure, especially in more rural areas. Also it would set a bad precedent and could lead to things such as school prayer being allowed.
All the evidence supporting ID can be better explained by the "blind watchmaker" concept.
Originally posted by CoconutI guess it has nothing to do with anything. You made a comment about the moon flying away, so I pointed out that, although slowly, it is getting away from Earth's gravity.
and that has what to do with anything? As long as it's still in orbit, gravity and the theory of relativity hold true.
And the earth's rotation is speeding up? Is that why we all find less hours in the day? 😕
The theory of relativity has to do with time, and the speed relative to the speed of light, at which a traveller moves. I suppose that it says that as you travel faster, mass increases, but as far as I know it has nothing to do with gravity. It has mainly to do with the passage of time relative to the speed of a traveller. Perhaps you know something about this theory that I don't.
About the hours in the day, the days are getting longer, because as the earth speeds up the moon, the moon, in turn, slows down the rotation of the earth.
Originally posted by rheymansI'm sure you're mostly correct, but I'm pretty sure that a part of it had to do with the "curve" of spacetime around large, planet-sized objects being the explination for gravity.
The theory of relativity has to do with time, and the speed relative to the speed of light, at which a traveller moves. I suppose that it says that as you travel faster, mass increases, but as far as I know it has nothing to do with gravity. It has mainly to do with the passage of time relative to the speed of a traveller. Perhaps you know something about this theory that I don't.
"Einstein's general theory of relativity describes gravity as a curvature of spacetime caused by the presence of matter"
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/BlackHoles.html
Originally posted by hopscotchYes. No. Thanks for the interest but worry about your piss pot of a country first.
Do y'all still pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all?
and
Have they made it illegal to burn your flag yet?
Just asking out of interest...