Originally posted by hopscotchWe need hand grenades in case the US gets invaded. What we don't need is a huge standing military.
What do you need hand grenades for? I understand that you could probably justify owning a gun for protection, but a hand grenade? Have you ever met anyone who owned a hand grenade? Can you purchase them over the counter?
edit: I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious.
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Originally posted by smw6869isn't it something like 95% of the people shot dead in the u.s. killed by someone they knew? if I remember right, it was about 15 000 'friends' against 500 strangers?
Americans use guns 3 million times per year to defend themselves against the bad guys. I say all Americans should turn in their guns to keep from being killed by guns. And, I'm sure the criminals will turn there's in also! (not) Result....even more dead good guys. I say, to hell with the criminals, what about defending ourselves againt our own gov't, if needed! I think you would surely agree that the US gov't is an evil killing machine! No?
it's not the elusive 'them' but us who do almost all the killing. same thing here btw, the killings are done almost exclusively by the husband or your drinking buddy.
about the government, it seems to do its killing outside the u.s. so I wouldn't worry about that so much. unless you happen to be a poor black man of course.
Originally posted by wormwoodHonestly, I've never owned a gun, and I don't know anyone who owns a gun. It's probably not nearly as widespread as the media leads you to believe.
isn't it something like 95% of the people shot dead in the u.s. killed by someone they knew? if I remember right, it was about 15 000 'friends' against 500 strangers?
it's not the elusive 'them' but us who do almost all the killing. same thing here btw, the killings are done almost exclusively by the husband or your drinking buddy.
about the governmen ...[text shortened]... I wouldn't worry about that so much. unless you happen to be a poor black man of course.
Originally posted by rbmorrisExcept in AZ. Where everything that sam guy said is true - that's where I moved from Canada. I remember being shocked by the fact that there were guns, and even more so by the first guy with a gun on his hip.
Honestly, I've never owned a gun, and I don't know anyone who owns a gun. It's probably not nearly as widespread as the media leads you to believe.
Originally posted by rbmorrisI'm looking at official statistics, wouldn't be caught dead taking american media at its face value. most american news reporters I've seen would probably be sacked immediately here for the subjective view point. it's not their fault, I know, they're told to deliver the news that way. the american way, entertainment before objectivity. but it just gives an idea how different media we have here.
Honestly, I've never owned a gun, and I don't know anyone who owns a gun. It's probably not nearly as widespread as the media leads you to believe.
arizona has something like 0.8 firearms per capita I think. that's a crazy amount of guns.
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3Yeah, that would be a little weird. I've never seen a civilian carrying a gun. That would freak me out a little too.
Except in AZ. Where everything that sam guy said is true - that's where I moved from Canada. I remember being shocked by the fact that there were guns, and even more so by the first guy with a gun on his hip.
Originally posted by wormwoodWhy is "subjective" wrong? Should you not be able to see reporting that is from your point of view? Is that censorship? Is that censorship for the better or worse?
I'm looking at official statistics, wouldn't be caught dead taking american media at its face value. most american news reporters I've seen would probably be sacked immediately here for the subjective view point. it's not their fault, I know, they're told to deliver the news that way. the american way, entertainment before objectivity. but it just gives an ...[text shortened]... arizona has something like 0.8 firearms per capita I think. that's a crazy amount of guns.
All views are subjective, including what makes "subjective" subjective - and the people making the rules make the rules about what is "objective." Does that mean that no one should ever broadcast opinion? Why should that be criminal?
Originally posted by rbmorrisSort of learn to love it after a while - and don't get me wrong, I don't now, nor have I ever owned or handled a firearm (and no this doesn't mean I'm proud of my inexperience to those who will try to degrade me for not trying.) I have been very interested in firearms and in the laws surrounding them for this particular reason - they were foreign to me in this particular way.
Yeah, that would be a little weird. I've never seen a civilian carrying a gun. That would freak me out a little too.
However, after living in the real wild west for thirteen years, I somehow totally support gun ownership. I consider myself a left wing sort of person, and I know (since I looked it up ages ago) that the true definition of liberal involves knowing that "liber" is the root of liberty, and library at the same time. Liberty means making choices for yourself and for society. It means taking responsibility for those freedoms you are defending, and it means knowledge.
To be a part of the world means responsibility - which may at times involve taking up arms to protect the world you love, but also may mean taking up arms to destroy a world you suffer. This responsibility, however means that you put yourself second to everyone in these respects.
You may believe you have the right to march down the road and force people to believe you are ok, but the reason you do this should be to protect their right to hate you for it.
You may believe you have the right to say what you feel, but, at times you will censor yourself because you know the other person has the right to say the thing you don't want to listen to.
In the end - all freedoms, to avail of all human knowledge (including personal firearms) should be guaranteed. There are already laws against all the stuff you might do wrong, to double up and say you can't even begin those thoughts only instigates those that feel dis-empowered, the angry, the afraid, the zealots, the terrorists.
Originally posted by wormwoodSo without guns how do you kill each other in Finland?
I just checked some official statistics (http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate.html for usa and www.stat.fi for finland) for firearms related deaths in both arizona (pop. 5,7M) and finland (5.2M). the year was 2004.
arizona: 897
finland: 2
the rates are per 100 000 people. you guys kill 450 times more people with firearms every year, that's just completely insane!
you should all be locked up as pre-emptive measures.
Originally posted by wormwoodAnd the 3 million that use a gun to save their lives every year? When i say use a gun, i don't mean actually shooting it. Simply showing that you are armed can be enough, against a robber, mugger, ass kicker, or against an armed opponent. Yes people that know each other kill each other... Like drug dealers, gang members ect. People commit suicide, there are accidental shootings. Polic officers kill themselves cleaning their gun. If a law were passed banning all firearms, all the law abiding citizens would turn their guns in. But not the criminals. Who would protect us? The US Supreme Court has ruled 12 times that the police are not responsible for protecting individuals. And, being realistic, how can they? You cannot sue the police department for not being there to protect you. They are there To Serve and Protect the local gov't that they work for. Poor blacks are poor because of the socialist system that hurded them into high rise Federal Housing Projects and gave them just enough money to survive, but not so little that they would go out and get a job, or a highschool education. Yes it's called RACISM! Blacks in low income areas have plenty of guns. they need them to protect their asses. Do you think if a person i know has a gun and could kill me, i shouldn't have a gun also?
isn't it something like 95% of the people shot dead in the u.s. killed by someone they knew? if I remember right, it was about 15 000 'friends' against 500 strangers?
it's not the elusive 'them' but us who do almost all the killing. same thing here btw, the killings are done almost exclusively by the husband or your drinking buddy.
about the governmen ...[text shortened]... I wouldn't worry about that so much. unless you happen to be a poor black man of course.