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Originally posted by SuzianneI guess I'll need to personally message the Mamlukes to be sure they are ok... you seem sooooooo worried about them, and I only want to ease your concerns.
Are you a paid hack shilling for Venice? You sound just like him.
More likely is that you try to curry favor in another game, methinks...
Interesting your particular language concerning Poland. The exact same thing happened to the Mamlukes, as I predicted at the outset. As KW implied, the difference is the original intent. Venice intended to sacri hen the Mamlukes committed seppuku also? I don't see you railing against *that* injustice...
King!
Originally posted by PhlabibitThe Sicilian at his old gig...
No.1's posts have been the most honest, though cutting... while you Heathers spin circles, lies, and avoid every fact that shows a couple of you are getting very sweet results while other regions take heavy loses to aid a small portion of your alliance.
Doge will explain it much better than I can, but you won’t buy that since you are sooooo blind to what is really going on.
King!
http://www.infocellar.com/funstuff/funny/Iraqi%20Information%20Minister.jpg
😉
Originally posted by KnightWulfeI came back from cleaning my teeth, so I just have time for two responses.
orfeo,
I know what no1 is saying. However, this game is not strictly based on the movement of units. The addition of diplomacy can make the INTENT of something as much a force as the actual movement of a unit. Keeping one's word or lying through one's teeth can vary the intent and the doing to diametrically opposed actions.
If we were just moving pi ...[text shortened]... nough to determine why they were there. He thought they were there to help, but they weren't.
You are STILL missing the point, which is: what is actually going to get measured as a win in this game? The computer is not going to award you bonus gold for the cleverness of your verbal deceptions, or assess your integrity.
No-one thinks that the 'intentions' and the words don't affect the outcome of the game: of course they do. But you can talk 'til the cows come home. If your troops don't get the land in the end, you won't win.
I agree, the intent and the action can be at odds. Everyone who's mucked up a turn file knows that for starters. But the ONLY reason that intent and verbal statements about it make a difference is because we can't see into the future with 100% confidence. Your actions affected by what you THINK other people's actions are going to be.
The computer doesn't award points for outwitting someone. It pays up on results - land, gold. I've read the victory conditions.
Originally posted by PhlabibitLOL! The propaganda machine remains in full swing, doesn't it? Twisting and turning, not to mention creation from whole cloth, of the "facts"... no wonder no one believes what the Italians say anymore...
I missed where any Heather ships have sent troops to help you... what turn was that?
No.1's posts have been the most honest, though cutting... while you Heathers spin circles, lies, and avoid every fact that shows a couple of you are getting very sweet results while other regions take heavy loses to aid a small portion of your alliance.
Doge will ex ...[text shortened]... n I can, but you won’t buy that since you are sooooo blind to what is really going on.
King!
The most honest? You mispelled misleading...
Cicles? Lies? The fact that the Italians have been abandoned (yet again) shows to whom these belong.
I need no "explanation" from the Doge. I have spent this entire game trying to show others the fallacies behind his "explanations". It looks like some are finally listening.
"... a couple of you are getting very sweet results while other regions take heavy loses to aid a small portion of your alliance."
This sounds remarkably like you are describing your own erstwhile "alliance"... and you call their actions "treachery" when they tire of being manipulated... Ask the Mamlukes about that. Oh, never mind... they're so stupid they probably *still* don't realize they've been manipulated.
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Originally posted by SuzianneI will say this very slowly and clearly.
Are you a paid hack shilling for Venice? You sound just like him.
More likely is that you try to curry favor in another game, methinks...
Interesting your particular language concerning Poland. The exact same thing happened to the Mamlukes, as I predicted at the outset. As KW implied, the difference is the original intent. Venice intended to sacri hen the Mamlukes committed seppuku also? I don't see you railing against *that* injustice...
I am not playing any games in which no1 is involved.
So why the HELL would I need to curry favour with him?
Also - and I know I've said words to this effect before - try to take into account that the universe doesn't automatically grant YOUR opinions an inherent rightness any more than it does the same for no1's (which is what you've been saying to him for the last couple of months). You're perfectly correct in thinking people don't have to agree with him. But are you really arrogant enough to think they have to DISAGREE with him, just because you do?
I've got my own mind, and I'm using it. Kindly refrain from suggesting otherwise.
And to get to the useful part of your post, I don't recall seeing the Mamlukes wander halfway across their map while completely abandoning their home territory.
Originally posted by orfeoCorrect, and many times, you get this land and gold BY outwitting someone. Ask Venice how much land and gold the outwitting of the Mamlukes scored them.
The computer doesn't award points for outwitting someone. It pays up on results - land, gold. I've read the victory conditions.
Originally posted by SuzianneYou really are sooooo blind. Our friends are fine, and if they are not they will get the help they need.
LOL! The propaganda machine remains in full swing, doesn't it? Twisting and turning, not to mention creation from whole cloth, of the "facts"... no wonder no one believes what the Italians say anymore...
The most honest? You mispelled misleading...
Cicles? Lies? The fact that the Italians have been abandoned (yet again) shows to whom these belong ...[text shortened]... they're so stupid they probably *still* don't realize they've been manipulated.
If you are lucky the Mamlukes will bring you drinks while you sit in THEIR parlor. Something will come, unlike what is happening for you.
King!
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Originally posted by SuziannePrecisely. I never said otherwise. But if you get the land and gold by rolling over someone like a Sherman tank, the computer doesn't know the difference.
Correct, and many times, you get this land and gold BY outwitting someone.
EDIT: I see buffalobill beat me to the same point.
Originally posted by orfeo(1) Why? Because every single thing he's done and said in this game is for one result. To profit HIM. Everything else is gravy. If you want to believe in him and be deceived, then so be it.
(1)Also - and I know I've said words to this effect before - try to take into account that the universe doesn't automatically grant YOUR opinions an inherent rightness any more than it does the same for no1's (which is what you've been saying to him for the last couple of months). You're perfectly correct in thinking people don't have to agree with him. But ...[text shortened]... lukes wander halfway across their map while completely abandoning their home territory.
(2)Uh-huh. Using it to spout the party line and jump on his bandwagon of misleading statements is hardly using it.
(3)You don't? That's funny, I do. Maybe that's why he's in my territory while I'm in his. But that wasn't exactly my point. You were claiming that Poland just exposed his soft underbelly for his allies... the Mamlukes did the exact same thing.
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Originally posted by Suzianne(1) And why shouldn't it be to profit him? The goal is to win the game isn't it?
(1) Why? Because every single thing he's done and said in this game is for one result. To profit HIM. Everything else is gravy. If you want to believe in him and be deceived, then so be it.
(2)Uh-huh. Using it to spout the party line and jump on his bandwagon of misleading statements is hardly using it.
(3)You don't? That's funny, I do. Maybe t just exposed his soft underbelly for his allies... the Mamlukes did the exact same thing.
Seeing as how I'm not even playing, I'm hardly the one being deceived. I have zero self-interest in the ultimate outcome of the game.
(2) Spouting the 'party line' requires me to be in the party. I am not playing the game. Good grief, woman, can you not get that in your head?
Despite no1's insults, you've struck me as being reasonably intelligent, but this bull-headed allegiance to the idea that I must have something to gain by having the same opinion as no1, because I couldn't possibly share his opinion of my own free will, is laughable, ridiculous, and completely arrogant on your part. It requires the assumption that your view is inherently right, and that anyone who disagrees with you is part of a secret conspiracy club.
I shudder to think what happens in your brain on election night - all those people who picked a different candidate! My God! They're all in on it! They're everywhere! *Cue invasion of the body snatchers music*.
(3) I was claiming it was obvious the Poles exposed their underbelly. I made no comment about what the Mamlukes did or didn't do. I would have to analyse more closely to see what happened with the Mamlukes - who started in Egypt and are STILL in Egypt as at round 16. I've kept the maps.
In fact, those maps show that Jerusalem and Antioch started off as independent. As of round 16, which is what I can see, that was all you had. Have you somehow succeeded in pushing south in round 17? Or is this just proof that you have no capacity to be accurate in your statements?