Originally posted by GottschalkNot having thought about it in this way to now, I think the actions of Nov DO lend an unfair advantage to the Horde and Bavaria. At the same time, it has disadvantaged others - namely Norway.
I don't think it is cheating, in the sense that no rules were broken. But yes, I find it disgusting.
Listen, if the poor guy lost some loved one, I can empathize with that, and I can understand the need to drop the game, of course. But I can not see where Novgorod's decision to throw the game's balance out of whack is defensible. Understandable, sur ...[text shortened]... rway, all the while, we can imagine, sending their realm's riches to other capitals?
Originally posted by GottschalkI disagree; any OTB chess player would know that "tanking" a game to benefit others in the same tournament is cheating. I fail to see how this is any different. Also the rules in the FAQ section state this:
I don't think it is cheating, in the sense that no rules were broken. But yes, I find it disgusting.
Listen, if the poor guy lost some loved one, I can empathize with that, and I can understand the need to drop the game, of course. But I can not see where Novgorod's decision to throw the game's balance out of whack is defensible. Understandable, sur ...[text shortened]... rway, all the while, we can imagine, sending their realm's riches to other capitals?
Q: Another player gave me all his lands before quitting the game. Now another person has been given control of that country’s troops – and lands. What is going on?
A: I know this is disappointing, but if a ruler attempts to give away all of his provinces and disband all his forces, then his lesser nobles will overthrow him in a palace coup (that would be an unchivalrous and cowardly act, and all Europe would despise the perpetrator). In that case, his orders won’t happen, and he will be dethroned, tortured, drawn and quartered, beheaded, and finally burned at the stake.
Obviously, this adjustment in the Diploware was done to prevent the same type of unsportsmanlike chicanery that Novgorod, the Horde, Bavaria and Saxony appear to be guilty of and/or benefiting from. Is it too much to ask that ALL players in the game make an honest effort to win?
Originally posted by GottschalkWhat do you think of a group of people coordinating with one another from the get-go due to relationships and friendships outside of the game? For example, the "kill all non RHPers" thing we had going? It's clearly advantageous to anyone who does this, if the people are all skilled and can trust one another that is. The way the game is set up such people will get rewarded. Now of course if they can't trust one another and end up BSing each other, then maybe it's not an issue. But what if they can trust each other...for real?
I'm going to pass along the information I received through the grapevine for a couple of reasons: (1) I do not think the information per se in any way makes any player in the game look bad, so passing it on should not be considered a malicious act. (2) I have no clue as to whether or not said information is true.
I was told that the Novgorod player ha benefit. We can not know if any other realm knew about Novgorod's decisions beforehand.
I'm not referring to clearly suicidal moves; but perhaps one might sacrifice in the short run knowing he'll get support later.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThat's thoroughly mediaeval. Just change "non RHPers" to "Habsburgs" or "Plantagenets".
What do you think of a group of people coordinating with one another from the get-go due to relationships and friendships outside of the game? For example, the "kill all non RHPers" thing we had going? It's clearly advantageous to anyone who does this, if the people are all skilled and can trust one another that is. The way the game is set up such peo ...[text shortened]... each other, then maybe it's not an issue. But what if they can trust each other...for real?
I'm so glad that this forum has become oh, so civilized since I left. I cannot believe that the two people who have held this forum hostage since the beginning of this game, and who are now on the eve of their departure from the game, have the sour grapes... nay, the balls, to accuse others of cheating, even though they know *nothing* of the motives this person actually had when making their last moves. And at least one of them has been warned once about this, about accusing others in this game of cheating in a public forum, when the rules specifically state that anyone who wishes to bring accusations of cheating against other players should contact the GM about their concerns and to NOT drag it out into a public forum.
If any of you have ANY basis for accusations of cheating, then I would strongly advise you to contact the GM with your concerns, and to discontinue trying to publicly humiliate the one you're accusing.
And you all thought *I* was over the edge... obviously, I'm a piker compared to some of you. I didn't expect to come in here and see the Paranoia Train steaming full ahead...
You got a complaint? You got a bitch? Take it to the GM and stop the sour-grapes muckraking. A public forum is NOT the place for this.
Originally posted by Suzianne🙁
I'm so glad that this forum has become oh, so civilized since I left. I cannot believe that the two people who have held this forum hostage since the beginning of this game, and who are now on the eve of their departure from the game, have the sour grapes... nay, the balls, to accuse others of cheating, even though they know *nothing* of the motives this p it to the GM and stop the sour-grapes muckraking. A public forum is NOT the place for this.
King!
Also, for the record... this is a thread, not a forum... and I've no where called anyone a cheat EVER in this game. I've pointed out how lucky some players are to have suckers crash and burn for them, how they are cowards to hide on the back rank... but never have I even used the word cheat to describe anything going on in this game. So you can say sorry now, and thanks.
Originally posted by SuzianneI can guess who the one might be, but the other? Surely you can't mean King Phil--he's been fairly quiet throughout, although lately subject to brief attacks of moral outrage (quite understandable for someone of his integrity).
I cannot believe that the two people who have held this forum hostage since the beginning of this game, and who are now on the eve of their departure from the game, have the sour grapes... .
Originally posted by Bosse de NageRefused and reported it to the GM so that the player could be removed and replaced with an AI if need be.
What would you have done in the Golden Horde's position, if your neighbour and ally Novgorod decided to throw in the towel and offered you a chance to take her provinces?
I notice KW has nothing to say; he's been online today.
I think Novgorod is guilty of some poor sportsmanship in granting passage rights to the realms that will be taking his provinces.
Let me again reiterate that NO rules appear to have been broken. Even if Novgorod was giving away wheelbarrows full of gold each turn, it is technically not a violation of the rules, though it would anger me even more. Incidentally, Phil's playing-Monopoly-with-the-birthday-boy analogy just about hits it on the head for me.
It was asked (by Bosse) what would we do if we were in the Horde's position. Honestly, my problem is with the way that Novgorod handled leaving and NOT with any realm's actions in response to it.
I do not think that Novgorod should have granted passage rights if he did so to facilitate the capture of his lands. I do not think any of his gold should have been sent. I do not think he should have attacked Norway's fleet unless that would have been a rational thing for Novgorod's ruler to do under the circumstances (and such and such other realm is plotting to attack Norway and that realm is my buddy's is NOT an acceptable rationale).
But Bavaria and the Horde (I am excluding Saxony, since it does not appear that he will benefit unless he is going to subsequently attack Norway) did EXACTLY what good rulers do -- they seek to better the position of their realms. If Bavaria sought to include Novgorod in this game for the express purpose of him dropping at a fortuitous time or to farm cash for him, then Bavaria has acted dishonorably to be sure, but there is no reason to think that this was the case or we would have seen Novgorod do some goofy things long before turn 20.
And I have no way of knowing if Novgorod sent anyone gold or not. Unless they presciently toggled the do-not-accept-gifts-from button to shun such gifts, Bavaria or the Horde would not have known they were coming. Would I send gold back under such cases? Heck no. How could a Duke of Aquitaine have justified that to his nobles?
This type of thing happens in MD far too often, but it is still a great game. And this kind of thing has historical precedence, too. Frederick Barbarossa was being counted on to provide the bulk of the support for the Third Crusade (and to keep the French and English kings from fighting each other), but his premature death on the way there led to all of his troops turning about and marching back home.
The Holy Roman Empire did not, however, attack Norway's fleet immediately after Frederick's death, nor did it entice the Magyars and Poles to flow freely across the border with the promise of free buckets of cash.
Originally posted by SuzianneThe GM is not in charge of the RHP forums. Go screw yourself.
I'm so glad that this forum has become oh, so civilized since I left. I cannot believe that the two people who have held this forum hostage since the beginning of this game, and who are now on the eve of their departure from the game, have the sour grapes... nay, the balls, to accuse others of cheating, even though they know *nothing* of the motives this p ...[text shortened]... it to the GM and stop the sour-grapes muckraking. A public forum is NOT the place for this.
Originally posted by SuzianneThis is the PERFECT place to hash this sort of stuff out, precisely because it might conceivably affect every player in this game.
You got a complaint? You got a bitch? Take it to the GM and stop the sour-grapes muckraking. A public forum is NOT the place for this.
The GM can not remedy this as the player at fault has left the game. Taking this to the GM does nothing.
For example, I might want to complain that you keep promising to stop posting on this thread. The thing is you keep coming back, like an alcoholic that just can't seem to screw up the gumption to stay on the wagon. The GM does not want to hear about it, however. On this thread, I can bring it up and, by doing so, hopefully so marginalize your opinion (that is so obvious crafted to be 100% opposite of what no1marauder's is that he appears to have completely taken control of your mind) that people care less and less for what you say and brace themselves once more for your promise to shut the heck up...