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Originally posted by Bosse de NageThat's bold talk, but not true. Your and the Ikko Ikki's vassals together have considerably more province gold value and troops than their "masters". A combined rising of several of them while you were also engaged in hostilities with the Kyushu Alliance would considerably strain your resources.
If they rose up now, they would be crushed in short order. The leeway provided by such a rebellion would be of considerable benefit to you, but not to any dead rebels!
EDIT: Could you "crush in short order" a rising by the Takeda and Hojo, for example?
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Originally posted by no1marauderOf that there is no doubt! However, for that to succeed, they would all have to revolt at once.
That's bold talk, but not true. Your and the Ikko Ikki's vassals together have considerably more province gold value and troops than their "masters". A combined rising of several of them while you were also engaged in hostilities with the Kyushu Alliance would considerably strain your resources.
If I were plotting such a rebellion, I would wait until the Kyushu lords had been disposed of (since you can offer no reason to join your cause); perhaps by that stage my suzerain's resources would have been drained to the point of vulnerability.
To your edit, if Takeda and Hojo revolted together, they would have to deal with Uesugi, Ikko Ikki and other allies: a tall order. As I said, all the Uesugi & Ikko Ikki allies would have to revolt at once to succeed. Good luck convincing them!
Originally posted by Bosse de NageNot all and the Takeda and Hojo would have local superiority. If they wait for the Kyushu Alliance to be defeated, A) They'd have a very long wait; and B) You'd probably have enough to declare victory. Whereas if a number of them rose up now you'd be in the dreaded position of actually fighting a war against a group about as strong as you. Perish the thought!
Of that there is no doubt! However, for that to succeed, they would all have to revolt at once.
If I were plotting such a rebellion, I would wait until the Kyushu lords had been disposed of (since you can offer no reason to join your cause); perhaps by that stage my suzerain's resources would have been drained to the point of vulnerability. ...[text shortened]... e Uesugi & Ikko Ikki allies would have to revolt at once to succeed. Good luck convincing them!
Allowing you to grow stronger and THEN revolting, wouldn't be very smart, would it? The time for them is now when there are strong forces on the board opposing you.
Originally posted by nook7Please. Why else would you provide the Shimazu with a province except to save their fleet for use against the Ryuzoji? Obviously you could have gotten far more revenue from the province by annexing it then "selling" it.
Yes, it is interesting how, he wants others to rise up against you and l, while the "Kyushu 3" claim victory.
Aah but of course l cannot see that through all my deceit. l should have known that my actions in selling land to someone else who 3-4 turns ago was fighting the Ryuzoji is deceitful.
Originally posted by no1marauderStrong forces opposing me? Opposing Hosokawa, more like. It's not as though I've fully committed myself to the struggle in Shikoku. Unfortunately there are some other matters to take care of. A question of dominion as it were.
Allowing you to grow stronger and THEN revolting, wouldn't be very smart, would it? The time for them is now when there are strong forces on the board opposing you.
I would be thinking a) the Kyushu mob are thick as thieves: they have to go; b) it won't take too long to get rid of them if we act en masse; c) why do all the work twice? Allowing you lot to get strong while taking Uesugi & Ikko Ikki down would only mean the hypothetical rebels would have to take you all down again.
My allies grow as I grow; my expansion is their expansion; better to wait until I am very fat before they start carving!
Originally posted by Bosse de NageFunny, your allies except the Ikko Ikki haven't grown to 1/2 your Gold province value. I suppose it's possible you might allow the Takeda to be the third wheel.
Strong forces opposing me? Opposing Hosokawa, more like. It's not as though I've fully committed myself to the struggle in Shikoku. Unfortunately there are some other matters to take care of. A question of dominion as it were.
I would be thinking a) the Kyushu mob are thick as thieves: they have to go; b) it won't take too long to get rid of them ...[text shortened]... y expansion is their expansion; better to wait until I am very fat before they start carving!
Originally posted by no1marauderNo1, The Shimazu has no real navy , as they are not allied to me l have nothing to do with them, save offloading a province of little value to me for some much needed gold to buy a real navy.
Please. Why else would you provide the Shimazu with a province except to save their fleet for use against the Ryuzoji? Obviously you could have gotten far more revenue from the province by annexing it then "selling" it.
The only contact l have ever had with them is in regard to selling a province - do you really think l need their help against you! (insert laughter here)
Originally posted by no1marauderHave a look at how the Oda grow despite not being royal - The Amako as well grow as do the Takeda and Asakura. l understand your need to try and divide succesful alliances, but the Uesugi and l are in our position not through deceit or stealth as you try to claim , but through good diplomacy.
Funny, your allies except the Ikko Ikki haven't grown to 1/2 your Gold province value. I suppose it's possible you might allow the Takeda to be the third wheel.
Originally posted by nook7Your arrogance is amusing and your statements dishonest. The Shimazu navy has 680 CS and 23 HP; that is a significant force. Your main fleet is a bit larger at 940 CS and 42 HP but for you to say the Shimazu have no "real navy" is false. Why bother to state such obvious falsehoods when they are right there for everyone to see?
No1, The Shimazu has no real navy , as they are not allied to me l have nothing to do with them, save offloading a province of little value to me for some much needed gold to buy a real navy.
The only contact l have ever had with them is in regard to selling a province - do you really think l need their help against you! (insert laughter here)
Originally posted by nook7But they won't grow enough to win, will they?
Have a look at how the Oda grow despite not being royal - The Amako as well grow as do the Takeda and Asakura. l understand your need to try and divide succesful alliances, but the Uesugi and l are in our position not through deceit or stealth as you try to claim , but through good diplomacy.
Originally posted by no1marauderI guess the chief monk took a look at the Shimazu fleet as it sailed by and sang out "That don't impress me much", to the hilarity of the assembled acolytes, who spontaneously started dancing. The merriment continued until late in the night...I don't think two seke-bune galleys and a couple of arquebusiers is a real navy, do you? Otomo has a real navy.
Your arrogance is amusing and your statements dishonest. The Shimazu navy has 680 CS and 23 HP; that is a significant force. Your main fleet is a bit larger at 940 CS and 42 HP but for you to say the Shimazu have no "real navy" is false. Why bother to state such obvious falsehoods when they are right there for everyone to see?
Originally posted by no1marauderl am glad you find me amusing ,as l certainly find you very amusing at times. (admitedly this time on the receving end)
Your arrogance is amusing and your statements dishonest. The Shimazu navy has 680 CS and 23 HP; that is a significant force. Your main fleet is a bit larger at 940 CS and 42 HP but for you to say the Shimazu have no "real navy" is false. Why bother to state such obvious falsehoods when they are right there for everyone to see?
To be honest No1 l didnt check the specifics as with what l will have next turn and what l can see around Shikoku it is nothing.
With no disrepect to the Shimazu but they are hardly a deciding factor in the outcome of this particular game.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageMy sentiments exactly - well spoken.
I guess the chief monk took a look at the Shimazu fleet as it sailed by and sang out "That don't impress me much", to the hilarity of the assembled acolytes, who spontaneously started dancing. The merriment continued until late in the night...I don't think two seke-bune galleys and a couple of arquebusiers is a real navy, do you? Otomo has a real navy.
We threw a "we feel sorry for the state of their navy party" as they sailed past.