Underage drinking where does the buck stop? Parents or the Police?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6952234.stm
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=7143&&&edition=1&ttl=20070819075544
In the teetotal world of z00t everyone is to blame but this cancer has spread for so long that its like closing the door after the horse has bolted.
I'm in absolute agreement with you on your last statement.
Personally I don't see how raising the legal drinking age will help, especially when you consider that underage pre-adults were and have been buying alcohol for years already. We have, our parents did it, as did theirs before them.
Nor do I feel that this is a sudden "epidemic". I remember getting into clubs and buying alcohol quite easily when I was still 16, and whenever I go out I notice quite a few under-aged kids being allowed into licensed premises without so much as being asked for ID.
As with Pandora's box, putting further sanctions and restrictions on something only makes it that much more desirable.
Restrictions, unless properly enforced are not going to help.
It should be the responsibility of parents to educate and discipline their children (I know I was due a few damn good hidings in my day), instead of leaving it to the police to control and society to clean up.
I agree. Age restrictions are not the solution, education is. Regulations and enforcement are of course necessary to protect the others (driving under influence for instance) but that has nothing to do with age. Education, learning to deal with alcohol, sex, drugs, cars, ... in a sensible way is the only solution. Heavy restrictions will only increase criminality (or have we forgotten the inhibition?).
theres no stopping under age drinking now short of locking kids up, its a culture thats only going to get worse. As more and more young kids drink, the more younger kids see it as acceptable, so where once drinking at 18 was the norm, drinking at 15 is now, and so 14 yr olds see nothing wrong with it as so many people their age or a bit older are drinking, and then as this culture develops more and more will want to drink even younger to be the cool one in the group who drinks the most and most often, and then theres the fact that once you have got drunk at 15 you will want to again and again, its a lot of fun. But not all underage drinking is seen, many kids dont go out drunk causing havoc, theyr the only ones who get noticed, i reckon there are much more underage kids drinking than statistics show, and im talking from experience, me and my friends have been drinking since 15, and now are 18, but our parents dont know, and im sure we wont appear on statistics.
Originally posted by mazziewagUndersage drinking is not a cause of problems, it is a symptom of other problems.
theres no stopping under age drinking now short of locking kids up, its a culture thats only going to get worse. As more and more young kids drink, the more younger kids see it as acceptable, so where once drinking at 18 was the norm, drinking at 15 is now, and so 14 yr olds see nothing wrong with it as so many people their age or a bit older are drinking, ...[text shortened]... g since 15, and now are 18, but our parents dont know, and im sure we wont appear on statistics.
Many cultures allow there kids to have the odd drink at meal times but they are generally able to do that without thinking it makes them big.
Originally posted by WheelyExactly. If you learn to use rather than abuse, then enjoying alcohol (especially a glass of wine or beer now and then) is a healthy complement to good nutrition, and a lot better than having fast food and sodapop several times a week.
Undersage drinking is not a cause of problems, it is a symptom of other problems.
Many cultures allow there kids to have the odd drink at meal times but they are generally able to do that without thinking it makes them big.
When I was a teenager the drinking age in the states was 18 in just about every state. Ronald Reagan decided this was a problem, and forced all 50 states to raise their age to 21 (or risk losing federal highway dollars). This did nothing to curb teenage drinking, and probably caused more underage drinking accidents than it saved. Bartenders might have stopped a number of kids from getting behind the wheel of their car after drinking.
Education is the key to ending under age alcohol ABUSE. I see nothing wrong with a teenager having a glass of wine or beer with dinner under parental supervision
Originally posted by z00tThe achillies heel of British society is lack of personal responsibility and the blame culture.
Underage drinking where does the buck stop? Parents or the Police?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6952234.stm
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=7143&&&edition=1&ttl=20070819075544
In the teetotal world of z00t everyone is to blame but this cancer has spread for so long that its like closing the door after the horse has bolted.
The police do not cure societies ills, they try and treat the symptoms.
Saying that underage drinking is the fault of the police is absurd (I realise zOOt was simply instigating the debate). Every child has a parent or guardian. The one unifying theme I see in badly behaved, anti-social and ill-educated kids is bad parenting. Either directly, through negative role models, or indirectly, through a weak and pathetic "They dont listen to me so I dont get involved" approach, and a lack of basic skills.
There are always a minority who do their best and their kid is just drawn into evil, but they are rare.
I would confidently predict that if we introduced sanction (including education) for parents of badly behaved under 16s, the problems would instantly reduce. I know because I have worked on two inner city pilots that proved just that. Make it a problem for the parents when their kids cause terror, and it gets personal for them. Things then change, as long as you provide the support and interventions required alongside the enforcement. But it got withdrawn by councillors - their argument was that this was the 'nanny state'.
I dont think trying to embed a culture of personal responsibility is a nanny state. I think it is the primary obligation of Government. Without it, society disintegrates. Which is what we are seeing now.
Of course the long term answer is education and economic development, but there will always be a significant minority who dont care and fuel the fire of social disintegration. We need the state to intervene now, otherwise innocent law abiding people who do care about responsibility, become the victims.
Originally posted by wormwoodIs that what you would say to the kids or wife of the guy killed by underage drunks? With the stuff strong enough to knock out an elephant freely available the kids have gone from vandalism and hooliganism to killing innocent adults.
hypocrites. the most fun I ever had as a teenager happened while drinking my ass off. I did a lot of stupid stuff, but I have no regrets. beats the hell out of sobriety in a close-minded bible study group.
Originally posted by z00tWhat do you say to the adult drunk or his wife or kids who kills underage kids? Too bad?
Is that what you would say to the kids or wife of the guy killed by underage drunks? With the stuff strong enough to knock out an elephant freely available the kids have gone from vandalism and hooliganism to killing innocent adults.
Originally posted by Mephisto2Teetotal.
What do you say to the adult drunk or his wife or kids who kills underage kids? Too bad?
The statement by Chief Constable Peter Fahy is crystal clear - Society has recently stepped back from laying down too many standards, and telling people how to run their lives, but I think we've seen the consequences of that
Originally posted by z00tdid getting drunk force those kids to drink & drive? of course not, that's a stupid thought. you could just as well blame the invention of wheel for that. in fact, banning all wheels would make traffic accidents stop.
Is that what you would say to the kids or wife of the guy killed by underage drunks? With the stuff strong enough to knock out an elephant freely available the kids have gone from vandalism and hooliganism to killing innocent adults.
stuff happens, life is unfair. deal with it.
Originally posted by z00tNo disrespect intended for 'Chief Constable Peter Fahey' and his personal beliefs (he better beliefs it because he is paid for it), but it doesn't mean he is right! The 'if you have a problem, make a few more rules' attitude is contra-productive in the long run, and will NEVER replace a good and balanced education.
Teetotal.
The statement by Chief Constable Peter Fahy is crystal clear - [b]Society has recently stepped back from laying down too many standards, and telling people how to run their lives, but I think we've seen the consequences of that[/b]