Originally posted by z00tAnd these are astute words. How many times do we hear the middle /educated classes bemoaning the attempts of the authorities to try and turn the tide as 'Big Brother' interference. How many times will I want to shout "But it is not about people like you, it is about the ever growing anti-social underclass". When people personalise these things, stating their case from idealistic viewpoints, the argument is clouded. CCTV is not about watching you shopping, it is about protection of the innocent. Laws allowing dispersal of assemblies is not about breaking up the village gala - they are used for gangs of feral teenagers, and the police have asked for them because the vulnerable in society have begged us to. And of course, laws allowing state intervention into families is not about the middle classes, it is about doing something to prevent disfunctional families from destroying neighbourhoods (which they do). There are hundreds of thousands of people growing up with no moral code, no altrustic tendancies, and they pose a significant threat to our democracy. Good people should not stand in the way of tackling this based on some idealistic human rights platform. This is not Big Brother, it is Government. Legislation brings with it the risk of abuse of course, but this is why we have independent judiciary, and a democracy. This is not a reason to hold back from trying to do something. We must do something in the short term, even if long term society must be founded on education and prosperity for all.
Teetotal.
The statement by Chief Constable Peter Fahy is crystal clear - [b]Society has recently stepped back from laying down too many standards, and telling people how to run their lives, but I think we've seen the consequences of that[/b]
Originally posted by PolicestateGood point.
And these are astute words. How many times do we hear the middle /educated classes bemoaning the attempts of the authorities to try and turn the tide as 'Big Brother' interference. How many times will I want to shout "But it is not about people like you, it is about the ever growing anti-social underclass". When people personalise these things, stating t ...[text shortened]... e short term, even if long term society must be founded on education and prosperity for all.
In the past, I have been involved with installing these cameras and have had to visit many places to service the equipment.
I never heard any “smoke room” conversations on how these cameras have fitted anyone up.
Is this possible?
Of all the footage I saw, it was people thinking they could get away with it and didn’t.
To live in safety is a human right, and if that means having a police force equipped well enough to do the job, then so be it.
(The job was crap, with low pay and very depressing looking at the same old crap all the time, youths causing unprovoked harm on passers by, acts of vandolism that just amaze and low life tossers thinking they are the next Cray twins).
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Originally posted by z00t (aka Spanky)Take it to the debates, Spanky.
Underage drinking where does the buck stop? Parents or the Police?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6952234.stm
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=7143&&&edition=1&ttl=20070819075544
In the teetotal world of z00t everyone is to blame but this cancer has spread for so long that its like closing the door after the horse has bolted.
EDIT: sorry, i've been wanting to say that for a while. i shall now read the thread - after i've made myself a pizza.
Originally posted by wormwoodYou didn't actually read the link and are just yapping nonsensically. See what happened here on Mr Newlove's death - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6947440.stm What drink and driving are you talking about? If you are going to be that arrogant you might as well change your name to Wormwood Scrubs.
did getting drunk force those kids to drink & drive? of course not, that's a stupid thought. you could just as well blame the invention of wheel for that. in fact, banning all wheels would make traffic accidents stop.
stuff happens, life is unfair. deal with it.
Originally posted by z00the was referring to duecer's post.
You didn't actually read the link and are just yapping nonsensically. See what happened here on Mr Newlove's death - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6947440.stm What drink and driving are you talking about? If you are going to be that arrogant you might as well change your name to Wormwood Scrubs.
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Originally posted by WoodgieI have seen it used to get police to an elderly woman being robbed (and save her), to identify a man who didnt like a beggar asking his wife for cash - so he stamped on his head until he died - and to convict a police officer who decided he would use very unreasonable force against someone arrested for a very minor offence. Plus a hundred similar incidents every month. (I agree Woodgie that the frequency and shocking nature of what is captured on film is a mightly depressing thing to see). Despite some utter drivel I read in the broadsheets, I have yet to see it used to infringe the civil liberties of anyone, unless of course the elderly woman would really have rather had her privacy! 🙂
Good point.
In the past, I have been involved with installing these cameras and have had to visit many places to service the equipment.
I never heard any “smoke room” conversations on how these cameras have fitted anyone up.
Is this possible?
Of all the footage I saw, it was people thinking they could get away with it and didn’t.
To live in safe ...[text shortened]... , acts of vandolism that just amaze and low life tossers thinking they are the next Cray twins).
EDIT - to clarify, the copper kicking the hell out of the thief isn't a 'one hundred times a month' occurance, much as we'd love too sometimes🙂
Originally posted by PolicestateAll very well and it is hard to argue against this level of intrusion if it does, in fact, save someone. However, it is not solving the problem. It is clearing up a proportion of the symptoms.
I have seen it used to get police to an elderly woman being robbed (and save her), to identify a man who didnt like a beggar asking his wife for cash - so he stamped on his head until he died - and to convict a police officer who decided he would use very unreasonable force against someone arrested for a very minor offence. Plus a hundred similar inciden ...[text shortened]... f the thief isn't a 'one hundred times a month' occurance, much as we'd love too sometimes🙂
You must ask why is it currently necessary to have cameras everywhere when many cultures don't seem to need them. What exactly is it about the country in which you live that provides the environment that leads to the things you see on the tapes. You are either saying that people are inevitably getting nastier as time goes on or there is an external reason for it. If there is a reason for it, the problem can be solved.
Personally I don't know the answer but it probably has something to with the priorities of the culture.