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  1. 29 Apr '07 21:48
    The King's Gambit and the Grob Busted? Yes. A certain Bobby Fischer announced in the summer of 1961 exactly that the King's Gambit was busted. The article and the 1961 article are here -> http://www.chesscafe.com/text/bust.txt

    As to how the grob was busted I'm tired and will post that tomorrow. Those of you newbies who have to face the grob/king's gambit can now sleep well at night.
  2. 29 Apr '07 21:56 / 4 edits
    Fischer wrote that article in a fit of pique after being BEATEN by the King's Gambit in a tournament, he never refuted anything. After it was printed, the KG did fall out of favor, strangely, even though it was written about a game he lost . He did yammer on about all the great moves he could of made, but it was just a bunch of sour grapes that did a disservice to a great opening.
    I thought everybody knew about that weird article.
  3. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    29 Apr '07 22:04
    Originally posted by z00t
    The King's Gambit and the Grob Busted? Yes. A certain Bobby Fischer announced in the summer of 1961 exactly that the King's Gambit was busted. The article and the 1961 article are here -> http://www.chesscafe.com/text/bust.txt

    As to how the grob was busted I'm tired and will post that tomorrow. Those of you newbies who have to face the grob/king's gambit can now sleep well at night.
    We are living in 2007 and this gambit is still unrefuted
  4. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    29 Apr '07 22:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by z00t
    The King's Gambit and the Grob Busted? Yes. A certain Bobby Fischer announced in the summer of 1961 exactly that the King's Gambit was busted. The article and the 1961 article are here -> http://www.chesscafe.com/text/bust.txt

    As to how the grob was busted I'm tired and will post that tomorrow. Those of you newbies who have to face the grob/king's gambit can now sleep well at night.
    Busted? My results on RHP

    Kings Gambit P117 W97 L10 D10
    Grob P64 W60 D3 L1

    QED.

    Edit:
    Grob P65 W61 D3 L1
  5. 29 Apr '07 22:37
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    Busted? My results on RHP

    Kings Gambit P117 W97 L10 D10
    Grob P64 W60 D3 L1

    QED.

    Edit:
    Grob P65 W61 D3 L1
    "and I only play the Grob when I know I can win it (ie I select my opponents very carefully)."

    Hmmm, I wonder who said that?
  6. 30 Apr '07 05:22
    Originally posted by Zander 88
    "and I only play the Grob when I know I can win it (ie I select my opponents very carefully)."

    Hmmm, I wonder who said that?
    I think most of DF's Grob games are a bit like a competitive dad blasting penalty after penalty past his hapless 4 year-old son:'(
  7. 30 Apr '07 07:02 / 2 edits
    My understanding of current theoretical opinion is that Fischer's Defence is safe, but among the more passive replies to the Kings Gambit.

    Chess practice since the time Fischer was active has shown the immaturity of his claims, since I believe it was ridiculous to suggest that he had found a refutation to every possible white idea in a few weeks analysis. 60 Memorable Games indicates that it was his loss to Spassky's KG (Mar del Plata 1960) that drove his search for a refutation. I wonder if the truth about that was simply that he was not as familiar in that opening and the resulting positions as he was in his more favoured Sicilian.
  8. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    30 Apr '07 08:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    I think most of DF's Grob games are a bit like a competitive dad blasting penalty after penalty past his hapless 4 year-old son:'(
    Have you at last sussed out my winning strategy, that I only play the Grob against weaker opposition and reserve my serious openings such as the Morra and Kings gambits for more serious opposition.

    I suppose this must be true as 10X I have been beaten with the Kings Gambit and only once with the Grob. Either that or the Grob is better than the Kings gambit.

    Edit: With the Morra Gambit my results are a disaster P61 W 40 L9 D12 - I must find something that gets better results than that against 1. ... c5.
  9. 30 Apr '07 09:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    Have you at last sussed out my winning strategy, that I only play the Grob against weaker opposition and reserve my serious openings such as the Morra and Kings gambits for more serious opposition.

    I suppose this must be true as 10X I have been beaten with the Kings Gambit and only once with the Grob. Either that or the Grob [b]is better than
    the ...[text shortened]... er P61 W 40 L9 D12 - I must find something that gets better results than that against 1. ... c5.[/b]
    Why not just play the mainline Open Sicilian?
  10. 30 Apr '07 15:02
    Originally posted by z00t
    The King's Gambit and the Grob Busted? Yes. A certain Bobby Fischer announced in the summer of 1961 exactly that the King's Gambit was busted. The article and the 1961 article are here -> http://www.chesscafe.com/text/bust.txt

    As to how the grob was busted I'm tired and will post that tomorrow. Those of you newbies who have to face the grob/king's gambit can now sleep well at night.
    The main point of d6 is to prevent white from moving his knight to e5...however lately there is no need to worry about that knight..at least at grandmaster level
  11. 30 Apr '07 15:56
    Don't underestimate the Grob. I have used it against players all the way up to master in both postal and otb. The only game I’ve lost with it was to a former Canadian provincial champion rated over 2200. I’m currently playing a postal game against an 1840 where I used the Grob. He made a snide remark at the start of the game asking, “Did you play this against (the 2270 rated player)?” He underestimated White's attacking chances from the beginning and tried to weasle out with a draw offer. I expect him to resign shortly.
  12. 30 Apr '07 16:30
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    Busted? My results on RHP

    Kings Gambit P117 W97 L10 D10
    Grob P64 W60 D3 L1

    QED.

    Edit:
    Grob P65 W61 D3 L1
    your results on RHP doesn't have the slightest significance in any kind of assessement about anything related to chess.
  13. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    30 Apr '07 17:04
    Originally posted by diskamyl
    your results on RHP doesn't have the slightest significance in any kind of assessement about anything related to chess.
    at least he's got results.
  14. 30 Apr '07 17:06 / 3 edits
    King's gambit is ok I suppose...
    P=28
    W=20
    D=3
    L=5
    eg Game 3481993

    But the Morra gambit is well & truly busted:
    P=19
    W=15
    D=1
    L=3
    eg Game 3465973
  15. 30 Apr '07 17:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by wormwood
    at least he's got results.
    the more you diverge from perfection, the less effect of the opening you choose makes on the result of the game.

    and I hate the arrogance walking around showing everyone those results which were all against weak opponents. in the only game he played that opening to a strong player, he lost. and there he says the opening didn't make the difference. oh, yeah.

    even Fischer's loss against, let's say, spassky would be something to consider, since their middlegame and endgame are close (and only close) to perfection, but not would be enough to come to a conclusion.