Due to inaction, whether it be out of fear, or respect, this site is going to see some major ramifications. Amazing players, who have brought great prestige, and legitimized this site will be leaving. David Tebb will not stand beside this, and I am positive that he will be leaving in the next few days. Which is a shame, and will probably lead to a large faction of the site moving on with him.
In my opinion, "overwhelming" seems to be a word that emphasizes evidence. Thus, if there is evidence, and it is overwhelming, do something about it. Stop wasting our time, I dont want to see individuals like Tebb leave...So, like many here, we implore you, (Russ) or whoever, just figure out what your going to do, and do it, if the said individual is not banned, at least let us know your reasons, and we can determine a course of action as a community. If the person is banned, well, I am sure they will move on, and so will the rest of us!
Originally posted by GalaxyShieldWhat I find ironic is that 95% of people posting in the thread wouldn't be able to spot an engine user even if it kicked them in the groin - myself included. The constant calls from lower rated players of "cheat, cheat" backed up by nothing other than rumour and hear-say is pretty disgusting to me. I have played some of the banned list and as well as those who I believe to be genuinely strong players, and I could not tell either way - I got thrashed into submission and then learn a valuable lesson about the flaws in my game.
Well this is ironic...
As I have no way of spotting cheating, I find all this pitchfork waving and witch-hunting to be a real black mark against the RHP forums. My position when we had game mods was to get this all out of the forums and let the mods do their work. My position is now that just because the public face of the game moderation team is no longer there, the process of keeping RHP regulated is - and has to be - still there.
I think that the situation the site is in now is no different that before the game moderation team was disbanded. I would like to offer a slightly different take on the disbanding though - has anyone considered that it is only the public face of the game moderation team that has gone? It wouldn't surprise me if Russ has decided that the game mods need to be more anonymous to us and hired some outside help to take this role. To have game mods that are not volunteers from the membership could be really beneficial - real people known personally to the site admins and 100% guaranteed to strong players in a way that no-one can ever be sure on the anonymous internet (BTW this is in no way accusing any past or present game moderators, but a quick glance back to the original mod set-up would show a public vote asking for TRACKHEAD21 to be a game moderator)
Finally, it is absolutely imperative that the only time a member is banned is after overwhelming evidence and conclusive proof (beyond doubt) of cheating. Whoever suggested that "those under investigation should have their accounts frozen" is completely misguided - this sends out all the wrong messages. A frozen account that is then unfrozen could easily be someone genuinely strong cleared of all suspicion, or a cheat with not enough evidence - who would know which. Anyone frozen would then always have this cloud of suspicion over them.
Russ: Take your time over any decisions - I am sure that when you do, it will be the informed judgments that keep this site the best.
Originally posted by ItsYouThatIAdoreWhat would you do if the evidence is not overwhelming?
Due to inaction, whether it be out of fear, or respect, this site is going to see some major ramifications. Amazing players, who have brought great prestige, and legitimized this site will be leaving. David Tebb will not stand beside this, and I am positive that he will be leaving in the next few days. Which is a shame, and will probably lead to ...[text shortened]... nity. If the person is banned, well, I am sure they will move on, and so will the rest of us!
Originally posted by cludiCludi, i hope you don't mind me saying this. I have no idea of the "evidence" that is there for said accusee, but in your honest opinion as former Game Mod, what do you think the proper course of action should be ?
It's not a question of why, but a question of how!
I personally think that, as three mods corelated evidence and data about previous accused, that this system should be used here. Maybe three trusted, impartial people elected by the people here. This is turning into a kangaroo court, and i don't think it's fair on anyone. What do you think mate, and who would you trust to make an Impartial decision ?
Originally posted by ItsYouThatIAdoreI agree with you to a point, but no amount of pressure, even from someone Like Mr Tebb should force the Moderation process. Much as i agree that there should be a process, it should not be held to ransom by a few emotive people.
Due to inaction, whether it be out of fear, or respect, this site is going to see some major ramifications. Amazing players, who have brought great prestige, and legitimized this site will be leaving. David Tebb will not stand beside this, and I am positive that he will be leaving in the next few days. Which is a shame, and will probably lead to ...[text shortened]... nity. If the person is banned, well, I am sure they will move on, and so will the rest of us!
There should be a response by the admins though, to clear the matter. In my humble opinion.
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundI think all forum readers would find it very hard to suggest any "proper cause of action" from where we are now. So would I.
Cludi, i hope you don't mind me saying this. I have no idea of the "evidence" that is there for said accusee, but in your honest opinion as former Game Mod, what do you think the proper course of action should be ?
Very sad, really.
Regarding who I trust: Read Hindsteins's post above. I agree very much with him.
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundI agree!
I agree with you to a point, but no amount of pressure, even from someone Like Mr Tebb should force the Moderation process. Much as i agree that there should be a process, it should not be held to ransom by a few emotive people.
There should be a response by the admins though, to clear the matter. In my humble opinion.
Originally posted by cludiDude, i just think a public hanging while the sheriff looks on is not very good for anyone. If the accusee is guilty(i am, like Hindestien, unqualified to comment) , and has been proven so, this is a non-issue isn't it. If he is innocent, he should be left alone, and the attackers should be punnished.
I think all forum readers would find it very hard to suggest any "proper cause of action" from where we are now. So would I.
Very sad, really.
Regarding who I trust: Read Hindsteins's post above. I agree very much with him.
It is the silence of the admins that seems hard to take here, for everyone.
I hope nobody minds me throwing my two cents worth up here.
Originally posted by Hindstein
What I find ironic is that 95% of people posting in the thread wouldn't be able to spot an engine user even if it kicked them in the groin - myself included. The constant calls from lower rated players of "cheat, cheat" backed up by nothing other than rumour and hear-say is pretty disgusting to me.
Without some sort of info from the admins, rumor and hear-say is all we have. Some of this goes bit beyond hear-say as the person who submitted the evidence has posted regarding the situation. But yeah...the theories as to what's going on behind the scenes and why do fall into that category.
My position is now that just because the public face of the game moderation team is no longer there, the process of keeping RHP regulated is - and has to be - still there.
I think that the situation the site is in now is no different that before the game moderation team was disbanded. I would like to offer a slightly different take on the disbanding though - has anyone considered that it is only the public face of the game moderation team that has gone? It wouldn't surprise me if Russ has decided that the game mods need to be more anonymous to us and hired some outside help to take this role. To have game mods that are not volunteers from the membership could be really beneficial - real people known personally to the site admins and 100% guaranteed to strong players in a way that no-one can ever be sure on the anonymous internet (BTW this is in no way accusing any past or present game moderators, but a quick glance back to the original mod set-up would show a public vote asking for TRACKHEAD21 to be a game moderator)
So all they have to do is tell us that they've got a new, anonymous, game-mod solution and things would be much better. Last I heard there was no new moderation solution in play. If one has been implemented, things are to the point where it'd be smart to let people in on that fact.
Russ: Take your time over any decisions - I am sure that when you do, it will be the informed judgments that keep this site the best.
I completely agree. But quite a bit of time has passed. Someone mentioned that they were told it would be handled by the 28th of Feb, which would have been well over a month since "the middle of January" that I've seen ref'd as when the original evidence was submitted. Russ does deserve some leeway as the site problems stole a week or two of that time from him. But we are now past that end of Feb date. No tourney title has been awarded and no ban has occurred. Given the situation, we should at least get an update on how this is being adjudicated and a ballpark for when the decision can be expected.
Originally posted by HindsteinThe main problem people are having (IMO) with the current situation is based largely on circumstances and the lack of response. I know Russ is allowed to take his time, but this has been going on much longer than people have known about it, at least since January 14th, when the clinching game of the 2007 Championship finished, but no victory was awarded . That is quite a long time to decide on a banning, but the mods magically disappeared. And I highly doubt Russ is making it an underground operation, because I'm not sure what the point of that would be. Wouldn't you want people who join to know they could be banned if they cheat? Plus Gatecrasher has mentioned in the forums that they don't know why they were removed after it happened, and they have always told us everything they could about what they knew.
What I find ironic is that 95% of people posting in the thread wouldn't be able to spot an engine user even if it kicked them in the groin - myself included. The constant calls from lower rated players of "cheat, cheat" backed up by nothing other than rumour and hear-say is pretty disgusting to me. I have played some of the banned list and as well as tho am sure that when you do, it will be the informed judgments that keep this site the best.
I believe several other people have done analysis on the player at hand, including Gatecrasher, and have presented what they knew to Russ. It's really this knowledge that makes people upset. Information was sent in that could lead to a banning, but instead, the mods were removed and everything was kept quiet. None of it makes any sense.
I guess what it comes down to is trust. In the case I trust what David Tebb has to say. He's good enough to spot an engine just by playing, I'm sure, plus he was on the original Mod Squad. So I bet he has done his own analysis, which hasn't gotten a reply (when you send feedback about a user, the admins usually reply with something, even if it is just a 'thanks'😉. I would rather lose and engine rather than Tebb, but I'm betting we'll end up losing both when everything is settled.
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundYou have a great two cents from what I can read.
Dude, i just think a public hanging while the sheriff looks on is not very good for anyone. If the accusee is guilty(i am, like Hindestien, unqualified to comment) , and has been proven so, this is a non-issue isn't it. If he is innocent, he should be left alone, and the attackers should be punnished.
It is the silence of the admins that seems hard to take here, for everyone.
I hope nobody minds me throwing my two cents worth up here.
Originally posted by IthrowwithClockswhat...??? i have no idea what you're going on about, going by you, everyone is a cheat because they're either cheats or their not
Perhaps some of you are also cheaters. Cheaters acuse cheaters of cheating. Also non cheaters do that and some of the accused are really innocent. I therefor understand why Russ does not act.
There are a lot of accusations flying about a certain player.
Like most of you, I have heard the rumors.
I think that for the good of the site, two things need to happen:
1. The rumors need to be laid to rest, either with a banning or an exoneration.
2. There has to be some form of game moderation in place to stop, or at least discourage, engine users.
If the site doesn't do something to at least make it appear that they are attempting to stop engine use, more and more players will leave.
I'm despondent that David is leaving. He is a great guy and a great player. I almost followed him out the door. I re-subbed, but I intend to allow my game load to dwindle and wait to see what happens.
Look, David says that the he/himself, has found the evidence with others, he submitted to Gatecrasher who agrees, from this they did an inquiry, and they confirmed that there is overwhelming evidence... David Tebb has staked his word on all this, therefore, I will pledge my allegiance to him...