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  1. 28 Jul '12 11:31
    Surely it's just another strong opponent for us to play? Granted, they are stupid to pay a sub so that their computer can be a member of RHP, but it's only a correspondence chess site, it's not affecting your real world rating, and if they are not paying a sub then they are not winning tourneys or affecting the clan leagues.

    There seems to be a lot of picking on a certain creationist atm, and God knows retarded unscientific bullocks gets on my tits too, I used to live in a rural area for pity's sake. But if he's cheating, then he's only cheating himself (to quote generations of school teachers), and if he's not cheating, then how do people feel about what is essentially bullying?

    Can't we just avoid playing people we think are cheating, and get on with the chess?
  2. 28 Jul '12 14:25
    Originally posted by Dewi Jones
    Surely it's just another strong opponent for us to play?
    Strong, but boring. If I wanted to play a box I'd play a box. I don't need to become a member of a chess site for that. I want to play human beings. That's more interesting than mere silicon.

    (That said, anyone who uses an engine, and still plays at my opponents' level (i.e., about my own), it doing something horribly wrong anyway.)

    Richard
  3. 28 Jul '12 15:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Dewi Jones
    Surely it's just another strong opponent for us to play? Granted, they are stupid to pay a sub so that their computer can be a member of RHP, but it's only a correspondence chess site, it's not affecting your real world rating, and if they are not paying a sub then they are not winning tourneys or affecting the clan leagues.

    There seems to be a lot of

    Can't we just avoid playing people we think are cheating, and get on with the chess?
    They are stupid to pay a sub so that their computer is a member of RHP, but they also make us stupid if we're paying a sub to play against a chess engine - something we could easily have done offline for free.

    If we were on a site where engine use was allowed, I'd have no problem with that. Since there are rules against it, I expect all my opponents to follow them.

    Cheaters are easy to avoid if they are non-subs. I'd hate to be forced to play a ladder game or clan league against an engine, though.
  4. Standard member hedonist
    peacedog's keeper
    28 Jul '12 16:04
    For the majority of us, engine cheats will rarely affect us. I'm probably about average grade on this site and have only encountered 2 obvious ones, and one of them was banned soon after I played him. I think it only hurts the stronger players, who are forced into these matchups regularly. Also strong players get tarred with the same brush as the cheats. I know for a fact a member who is playing about 1000 points above his OTB rating on here. So anyone with a rating above this obvious cheat I instantly think dubious.

    But I do wonder what would happen if a strong Grandmaster joined this site. Would he too get harassed as a cheat, or would the fact that he was not using a computer mean that he would not reach the top page anyway?
  5. Subscriber thaughbaer
    Duckfinder General
    28 Jul '12 16:12
    Originally posted by Dewi Jones
    Surely it's just another strong opponent for us to play? Granted, they are stupid to pay a sub so that their computer can be a member of RHP, but it's only a correspondence chess site, it's not affecting your real world rating, and if they are not paying a sub then they are not winning tourneys or affecting the clan leagues.

    There seems to be a lot of ...[text shortened]...

    Can't we just avoid playing people we think are cheating, and get on with the chess?
    You have to go back to a time before you joined to understand what is going on now. When the things you say don't match with the moves you play don't be surprised when the finger of suspicion points in your direction.
  6. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    28 Jul '12 17:16
    Originally posted by Dewi Jones
    Surely it's just another strong opponent for us to play? Granted, they are stupid to pay a sub so that their computer can be a member of RHP, but it's only a correspondence chess site, it's not affecting your real world rating, and if they are not paying a sub then they are not winning tourneys or affecting the clan leagues.

    There seems to be a lot of ...[text shortened]...

    Can't we just avoid playing people we think are cheating, and get on with the chess?
    You hit the nail on the head. It is more about prejudice than any supposed cheating.
  7. Standard member gambit05
    Mad Murdock
    28 Jul '12 19:16
    For the avarage player it probably doesn't mean a lot whether he is beaten by a strong player or an engine. However, if you invest a lot of time to find the best moves, and then figure out your opponent just uses a superior engine that finds all (most of) the tactics, it can become frustrating.
  8. 28 Jul '12 19:39
    Cheaters are scum who will never get to heaven.
  9. Standard member hedonist
    peacedog's keeper
    28 Jul '12 20:21 / 1 edit
    One thing I do find amusing about all this is that because most, if not all players on the top page are using engines*, They are keeping their ratings low by playing each other.

    I'm sure If there was only one person using an engine on this site, he would have a rating of 3000+. 😉

    So most of those who have sold their soul to the devil, have done so for a puny 2200 rating.

    *in my opinion. 😀😉
  10. Subscriber thaughbaer
    Duckfinder General
    28 Jul '12 21:04
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You hit the nail on the head. It is more about prejudice than any supposed cheating.
    Prejudice against what ? The "analyze board" feature ?
  11. Standard member Steve45
    Garry Kasparov
    29 Jul '12 00:27
    The only way to deal with anyone caught cheating using an engine, is to kick them off this site. And i dont mean like athletes who when they get caught, plead forgiveness, and then get only a one or two year ban. We dont want or need cheats, so kick them off the site, an make it clear that there never welcome to come back. I want to play all you nice people out there on RHP, not machines.
  12. 29 Jul '12 00:35
    Originally posted by Dewi Jones
    Surely it's just another strong opponent for us to play?
    No, it is not. Even in this anonymous electronic world, many of us take pride in the honest chess accomplishments that are reflected in our screen name. I have 2 tournament victories. I won them without aid, but both could have been taken away from me by an engine user.

    Half of my game load is for my clan, a group of people who work together over the period of a year to try to show how good we can be in the clan ratings. Any engine use from opponents can effect that.

    Shift your theory over to face to face life. You sit down for your first game at a week-ender tourney. Your opponent has his laptop up and running and a smile on his face. Your reaction? You walk out onto the pitch and see your opponents have 12 men. Your reaction?

    It is a matter of basic fairness and the confidence that your abilities will be fairly tested at RHP. The terms of service here lay out the rules. As I pay my money each year, that is the environment I demand to play in.
  13. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    29 Jul '12 00:51
    Originally posted by Dewi Jones
    Can't we just avoid playing people we think are cheating, and get on with the chess?
    It's easier to avoid them if the most obvious ones are exposed.
  14. 29 Jul '12 06:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by hedonist

    But I do wonder what would happen if a strong Grandmaster joined this site. Would he too get harassed as a cheat, or would the fact that he was not using a computer mean that he would not reach the top page anyway?
    I think the odds of that happening are pretty low. I've played against GMs and I've played against engines: those are completely different experiences. It doesn't take more than a few moves to tell a human from a machine. There is more than one way to play chess extremely well, and the human way is easily recognizable by humans.

    Even if people began to point fingers, a strong GM could easily provide proof that he is in fact a strong player. When an unknown player with a rating below 2000 starts to perform on the same level as a GM on a website, though, and doing so with unnatural moves, something spooky must be going on.

    As for whether or not a GM could reach the top here without using engines, that's a good question. I don't think we have any titled players here. But I suspect that a GM with some experience in correspondence chess wouldn't have much trouble scoring draws and an occasional win against an engine user.
  15. 29 Jul '12 08:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by danilop
    I think the odds of that happening are pretty low. I've played against GMs and I've played against engines: those are completely different experiences. It doesn't take more than a few moves to tell a human from a machine. There is more than one way to play chess extremely well, and the human way is easily recognizable by humans.

    Even if people began to po ess wouldn't have much trouble scoring draws and an occasional win against an engine user.
    " It doesn't take more than a few moves to tell a human from a machine."
    Wow!Can you teach us?
    I could understand a few moves each game and then a lot of games.And even then you'd have to be a very strong player.

    "a strong GM could easily provide proof that he is in fact a strong player."
    Yes,but that proves nothing.Strong players can use engines too.


    "But I suspect that a GM with some experience in correspondence chess wouldn't have much trouble scoring draws and an occasional win against an engine user."
    I doubt it.Unless the cheat is a real weak player or doesn't let the engine run long.Or we're talking top GM's,genre Carlsen,Gelfand etc...And even they probably need to know what they're up against.
    Also,if the GM would indeed beat the engine it would only make him/her more suspect.