Originally posted by KellyJayWe do look at what we know, or at least at what we think we know - which is that time changes. Relativity fits observation to a very high degree.
Matter changes, we can affect energy and alter it, so when things occur
like clocks are off, why is it that we don't look at what we know instead of
assume it is something like time that changes?
Kelly
My counter argument to your scenario, which I don't think you have really addressed or acknowledged, is that whatever the cause of the clocks going slower or faster, it appears to affect all clocks to such a degree that the effect is indistinguishable from time going faster or slower.
What this means is that if you were on my hypothetical high speed train, you would experience time going slower, whether it really was or not. Do you agree that this would happen? Do you agree that your way of looking at things would not rule this out? If you disagree, then it should be trivial to design an experiment proving you right and relativity wrong.
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Originally posted by KellyJayA short question, Kelly: Do you dismiss time dilation according to the relativity theory?
Matter changes, we can affect energy and alter it, so when things occur
like clocks are off, why is it that we don't look at what we know instead of
assume it is something like time that changes?
Originally posted by twhiteheadI have said over and over that there is something going on that is causing
We do look at what we know, or at least at what we think we know - which is that time changes. Relativity fits observation to a very high degree.
My counter argument to your scenario, which I don't think you have really addressed or acknowledged, is that whatever the cause of the clocks going slower or faster, it appears to affect all clocks to such a de ...[text shortened]... gree, then it should be trivial to design an experiment proving you right and relativity wrong.
an effect, but is it the clocks, or time that have suffered the effect? Your
train has those on it being affected, again is it them, or time? Do all things
share the same time line, the same now, how can that be if somethings
are moving faster or slower in time, at the same time, sharing the same
now?
Kelly
I'm going to repost this:
Kelly, out of curiosity, would you be willing to buy the following two propositions:
Physics is the same in all unaccelerated reference frames. Essentially, an experiment done in one frame, moving at some constant velocity v_1, will produce the same results if it is done in another frame, moving with some constant velocity v_2?
The speed of light is the same in all reference frames.
Originally posted by amolv06I believe that if all the conditions are the same the same result should
I'm going to repost this:
Kelly, out of curiosity, would you be willing to buy the following two propositions:
Physics is the same in all unaccelerated reference frames. Essentially, an experiment done in one frame, moving at some constant velocity v_1, will produce the same results if it is done in another frame, moving with some constant velocity v_2?
The speed of light is the same in all reference frames.
follow if that is what your saying in the first part, with respect to the 2nd
point if it isn't the same it is beyond us to detect the delta.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI get what you are saying, and have no real objections.
Not at all, I'm saying I think it isn't time that is changing it is the material
world being altered. Without a doubt something is taking place that we
by test measure.
Kelly
However I must note that it really has little or no use. It may be true, it may not, but as long as it is indistinguishable from relativity, it doesn't really matter.
There could well be invisible pink unicorns hiding in my fridge, but if I cannot detect them, then who cares?
The other factor is whether or not your way of looking at things has any implications, or provides any benefits to the way we do our calculations. I think that so far, the answer is no, no such benefits are known.
So ultimately, it doesn't really matter whether time goes faster and slower or only appears to go faster and slower. If the formula works, then use it.
My biggest concern is that your concept seems to be based on what you think you perceive. The problem is that it is based on what you think you perceive and not what you actually perceive.
That methodology is as flawed. It is like those who believe that everything in the universe is causal in nature (despite the total lack of evidence). They sees causes and effects, and conclude that they must be universal, despite the fact that they are not known to be universal.
It is rather like the difference between relativity and Newtonian mechanics. In our every day lives the two are indistinguishable. We therefore use our natural ability at parsimony and see everything as Newtonian, even though in reality we cannot tell the difference.
The same applies to the difference between quantum dynamics and Newtonian physics. In our every day lives they are virtually indistinguishable and we find it hard to accept that the less parsimonious explanation is valid. Yet in reality we do not observe one and not the other, we observe results which could match either. When we look at the details, we can distinguish the two and find that it is Relativity and Quantum mechanics that are observed. Yet we find it hard to come to terms with this.