Originally posted by twhiteheadIt really boils down to time, what is it really? I cannot help but think it is
I get what you are saying, and have no real objections.
However I must note that it really has little or no use. It may be true, it may not, but as long as it is indistinguishable from relativity, it doesn't really matter.
There could well be invisible pink unicorns hiding in my fridge, but if I cannot detect them, then who cares?
The other factor is w ...[text shortened]... ivity and Quantum mechanics that are observed. Yet we find it hard to come to terms with this.
like a freq that we all share, pop out of that freq your on another channel
and therefore no longer here. You are right, I wouldn't change a thing as
far as how we use our current testing methods, they work! I do think when
things do not seem to add up, it would be worth looking at them a different
way.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayYet although you 'cannot help but think' it, there is no good reason for doing so. It is an illusion created by our natural ability to use parsimony.
It really boils down to time, what is it really? I cannot help but think it is
like a freq that we all share, pop out of that freq your on another channel
and therefore no longer here.
I do think when things do not seem to add up, it would be worth looking at them a different way.
Quite so, but things do add up. You admit yourself that the methods work.
To give another example of parsimony at work, to the every day human being the sun appears to be going around the Earth. Without careful thought and measurement it is indistinguishable from a rotating earth. Our brains naturally choose the parsimonious one (the sun going around the earth), until we are shown a model of the solar system then suddenly that seems more parsimonious and we accept that. Sometimes, the reality is much harder to accept because it doesn't seem parsimonious, yet accept it we must. For example, despite the fact that Quantum mechanics is a fairly old science now and has been shown to be highly accurate and explains many many phenomena, most of us have a very hard time dealing with it and accepting it and are always searching for an explanation that better fits our Newtonian understanding of the universe.
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Originally posted by KellyJayThankfully, time is defined differently from this. This is why the idea of time-dilation works!
It really boils down to time, what is it really? I cannot help but think it is
like a freq that we all share, pop out of that freq your on another channel
and therefore no longer here. You are right, I wouldn't change a thing as
far as how we use our current testing methods, they work! I do think when
things do not seem to add up, it would be worth looking at them a different
way.
Kelly
Originally posted by amolv06"Thankfully", why would you be thankful for that? It is either real or not,
Thankfully, time is defined differently from this. This is why the idea of time-dilation works!
I don't see an advantage or disadvantage for having it defined one way
or over another. The only thing that would change as far as I'm concern is
that we view the effect a little differently, what that means real world I do
not see it as a huge deal either way. If you call it a 'time-dilation' or come
to see it as something else, it is still a real effect.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhiteheadIt bothers me for the reasons I have outlined, I think a real breaking of
Yet although you 'cannot help but think' it, there is no good reason for doing so. It is an illusion created by our natural ability to use parsimony.
[b]I do think when things do not seem to add up, it would be worth looking at them a different way.
Quite so, but things do add up. You admit yourself that the methods work.
To give another exampl ...[text shortened]... ys searching for an explanation that better fits our Newtonian understanding of the universe.[/b]
synchronisation with the rest of the universe would create different effects.
If you view it as not worth the effort it, because the theory as is has given
us some useful tools is understandable, but that alone isn't any reason
to call it settled.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJaySo your take on the mathematically proven theorems about time and GPS's and so forth work but there is something more fundamental underneath all that? You are waiting for the next BIG breakthrough just as we got from Big Al in 1905?
It bothers me for the reasons I have outlined, I think a real breaking of
synchronisation with the rest of the universe would create different effects.
If you view it as not worth the effort it, because the theory as is has given
us some useful tools is understandable, but that alone isn't any reason
to call it settled.
Kelly
I have no doubt there may be such breakthroughs in the future but in the meantime we work with what we have, the math works, the GPS would certainly NOT work if it were not for the time dilation equations guiding the time hacks of atomic clocks in satellites and on Earth, we know for sure that kind of thing works and works so well we have not found a glitch in the theory through any experiment, so what you are left with is a nagging feeling that something is not finished with time dilation theory.
Maybe you will live long enough to say 'see, I told you so'.
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Originally posted by KellyJayThis is not surprising, as you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what time, time dilation, and relativity actually are and say. I would strongly suggest taking a look at one of the books I've recommended.
I don't see an advantage or disadvantage for having it defined one way
or over another.[/b]
Thankfully", why would you be thankful for that?
I'm thankful that it is defined that way because it makes calculations immensely simpler than what you are proposing.
Originally posted by amolv06It is six of one and a half dozen of another.
This is not surprising, as you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what time, time dilation, and relativity actually are and say. I would strongly suggest taking a look at one of the books I've recommended.
[b]Thankfully", why would you be thankful for that?
I'm thankful that it is defined that way because it makes calculations immensely simpler than what you are proposing.[/b]
Kelly
Originally posted by sonhouseThink of me when it happens. 🙂
So your take on the mathematically proven theorems about time and GPS's and so forth work but there is something more fundamental underneath all that? You are waiting for the next BIG breakthrough just as we got from Big Al in 1905?
I have no doubt there may be such breakthroughs in the future but in the meantime we work with what we have, the math works, ...[text shortened]... shed with time dilation theory.
Maybe you will live long enough to say 'see, I told you so'.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayAn I have asked time and again whether you can name any such effects and even whether or not you think such effects exist. To date you have not only not named any such effects, but you have agreed in the past that it is possible that no such effects may exist ie you have accepted that the two ways of looking at things may be observationally indistinguishable.
It bothers me for the reasons I have outlined, I think a real breaking of
synchronisation with the rest of the universe would create different effects.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI answered this before too.
An I have asked time and again whether you can name any such effects and even whether or not you think such effects exist. To date you have not only not named any such effects, but you have agreed in the past that it is possible that no such effects may exist ie you have accepted that the two ways of looking at things may be observationally indistinguishable.
I have said that I believe the effect would manifest itself like what occurs
when we change stations on our radios or TV sets. While we are on the
same time, we can interact with one another, and we when we are not we
cannot. I cannot for example interact with what is taking place 2 seconds
into the future or 2 seconds in the past, I can only do so in the now. If
there are different frequencies of time that run simultaneously we would or
should be able to pass from one to another, if not we are dialed into the
same moments at all times, than we are completely unable to change the
channel from the one we are in.
Kelly