Originally posted by RagnorakThe same thing also happens if you make a move and then click "Reset to board at play".
If you submit an "Invalid move submission", then you are unable to move your opponent's piece before moving yours in Quick Mode. Also, if you have recorded 1 condition, then you can't properly record subsequent conditions (for the same reason as before, ie: not being able to move your opponents piece first) without going back to the main board and then ba ...[text shortened]... You can however record a conditional move, without having moved your opponents piece first.
As far as I can see, the Quick Mode doesn't work if it's your move (considering that it takes some time for the condition to be applied*, it would make sense to put in the condition before you move yourself). I think that would be nice to have. Of course you'd have to put in the move you are going to make before your opponent moves first. If this is not possible and we have to use the Deep Mode instead, it would be best not to have the Quick Mode button at all if it's your move.
* Hm, I just realised that I most likely misunderstood the delay, thinking that if you'd record a condition very shortly before your opponent moves, it wouldn't be applied. I guess it just means that if you record a condition and your opponent moves, it will take 10 minutes until the conditional move is played, so if you make a different move in the meantime, the conditional move won't be applied. Right? My suggestion above still stands, though - sometimes the opponent moves so fast that it wouldn't be possible to record a condition between your own move and your opponent's.
Originally posted by RagnorakNow all of the components for conditional moves are in place, I can focus my attention on the interface alone to get it fixed. It still needs quite a bit of work. In fact, I would go as far as saying don't worry too much about reporting problems with the board interfaces itself until I release another version. (Hopefully towards the end of next week.)
Forgot to say I'm using latest version of FF on Windows 2000.
As for the interface, I don't find it all that intuitive. I'd much prefer an implementation using something like the position count on the analyse board screen. Put in the line you expect, and then click record or something.
I don't get why you have to set up a position first (which could ...[text shortened]... click record conditional move, and go to make another move, and another piece appears.
D
-Russ
Originally posted by RussI've used CM in many games, and I find it working like a charm. I really like it! It makes the games go faster, and I don't have to wait for obvious moves. I haven't had any problems so far. I'm really happy with it!
Now all of the components for conditional moves are in place, I can focus my attention on the interface alone to get it fixed. It still needs quite a bit of work. In fact, I would go as far as saying don't worry too much about reporting problems with the board interfaces itself until I release another version. (Hopefully towards the end of next week.)
-Russ
I've just started to play about with the condition thing.
Here's my two cents worth -
Castling (opponents move) is a problem - only the king moves, so you have to use the 'deep' option and set up the board to handle a castling move.
Promotion is a bit odd? Either the 'condition' position includes the promoted piece before it's reached the back rank - or there is a pawn on the back rank?
i.e. Pawn on 7th rank, as part of a 'condition' - advances to eighth in response - I can either record this as the pawn moving forward and changing to a queen (a) or just moving onto the 8th rank and staying as a pawn(b)
in case (a) the 'condition' position shows a queen on rank 7?
in case (b) the 'response' position shows a pawn on rank 8?
I left it as per (a) and when the move was made, the pawn went to rank 8 and I was left with it being my move and the game asked me to choose what to promote to.
As mentioned above, it would be nice to have a 'message' option for the conditional moves, so that as well as the move, you could send a message - different for each response.
Although for the most part you'd only want to implement conditional moves where you have one or two forward moves in mind, if you're wanting to play out a certain opening (maybe ten moves or more from 'book'😉, then it would be great to be able to save a series of moves in one go.
The way the 'analysis' board works now for example - surely each FEN arrived at could be stored - as a conditional and a response? building up a 'string' of position=response objects that could be applied in series? I know that you can use the interface to string together a setries of moves, but each has to be saved individually.
The concept of 'this position reached = this move in response' is very easy to grasp. I presume that once a position is reached, then the response will only be played once? I can see situations where a 'repetition draw' might get forced through endless playing out of conditional moves. Maybe there should be an option to 'play once' or 'play always'?
Would it be possible to create your own 'personal library' of conditional moves? For example if someone plays d4 against me, I (almost always) reply with e6. Building up a library of opening responses would be a great way of accelerating through the opening stages of games (the bit I find most tedious) - to be able to say 'good luck x' at the same time as making an 'auto' move would be awesome.
Apologies if anything I've outlined has already been brought up.
Originally posted by orangutanI am just testing this with bosintang. My guess is that the conditional moves will only be played once. If I am wrong, we'll end up in a loop we won't be able to end, because played conditional moves can't be deleted.
The concept of 'this position reached = this move in response' is very easy to grasp. I presume that once a position is reached, then the response will only be played once? I can see situations where a 'repetition draw' might get forced through endless playing out of conditional moves.
Originally posted by NordlysA position is only played once, this is correct.
I am just testing this with bosintang. My guess is that the conditional moves will only be played once. If I am wrong, we'll end up in a loop we won't be able to end, because played conditional moves can't be deleted.
Once a game ends, or after a period of time, all played moves will probably be purged, but retaining them during testing in particular is very useful.
-Russ
Just another thought -
I'd like the option of resignation (I know Phlabibit mentioned this before). I've been in games before where I've thought - if they do this, then I'm stuffed so I may as well resign, but if they do THIS ... then I'm home and dry.
Claiming a draw (on the three position repetition rule) or offering a draw would also be a useful addition - The accept draw option is there already, but it would be nice to be able to offer as well.
For the message problem, you could add an updateable field to the 'queued conditions' pop-up so that you could first record the move, then (optionally) add a message.
Originally posted by kenanI don't think that conditional moves are signalled as such - there's no need really. There's no benefit in knowing that someone thought about the game and predicted their opponents response.
Will my opponent be able to tell whether I submitted a conditional move or a normal move?
Will I be seen online when my conditional moves take effect (the green dot next to my name) even though I am not online physically?
I would've liked to try the feature. 😞
If someone moves in a game against me, then I'm not sure that I care if they just did that now, or if they thought that move through three days ago. It's a move in a game.
The green dot will only show when you are active on the site. If conditional moves are being made on your behalf by the site whilst you are not logged on, then the green dot is not going to show.
If you want to be part of the testing group then PM Russ.
Originally posted by RussI am at my games limit, so can't start a non-rated game to work this out with an opponent (sorry, not the best beta tester).
A position is only played once, this is correct.
Once a game ends, or after a period of time, all played moves will probably be purged, but retaining them during testing in particular is very useful.
-Russ
I think there could be a problem if deep conditional responses are recorded as they are now; by position. Say, I'm at a certain postion, and I record an automatic response. My opponent doesn't play the move I thought he would, but after 3 or 4 moves we reach my earlier predicted position, but in the meantime, I've figured out a better line, and forgotten that I had input a position move for the coming position.
Will the condition that I put in 4 or 5 moves ago, still play automatically when we reach the position? Would I be expected to remember that I had recorded a CM, and have to go and delete it?
Another reason why I think recording CMs via the interface of the position count on analyse board;Play out lines, and then record them. As soon as your opponent doesn't play your expected move, the CM gets removed.
D
Originally posted by orangutanThat's actually not true. I have just come home and haven't made any moves yet, but a conditional move has been played, and the green dot is showing.
The green dot will only show when you are active on the site. If conditional moves are being made on your behalf by the site whilst you are not logged on, then the green dot is not going to show.