1. Standard memberDeepfault
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    05 Jan '05 22:08
    I want to vote but I dont know anything about any of the contestants.

    Any recommendations anyone? Do they have manifestos that I can read.

    What will they actually be doing again and what skills will they need?

    Should I just vote for the highest ranking contestants?

    Actually David Tebb sounds like a nice man and lots of people have voted for him so I will definately vote for him.

    Anybody else want to convince me that they deserve my vote or being a newbie should i not vote at all and let those that know these people make the call?
  2. Standard memberExy
    Damn fine Clan!
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    05 Jan '05 22:302 edits
    Agreed, David Tebb is the ideal candidate. I also know that Arrakis was a Computer Buster at ICC for a long time and he is very experienced. Greyeyesofsorrow has also been very good at analysing games so far I have found.
  3. Joined
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    05 Jan '05 23:15
    Originally posted by Exy
    Agreed, David Tebb is the ideal candidate. I also know that Arrakis was a Computer Buster at ICC for a long time and he is very experienced. Greyeyesofsorrow has also been very good at analysing games so far I have found.
    I would also endorse all 3 of those candidates suggested

    Andrew
  4. Standard membermateulose
    Look, it's a title!
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    06 Jan '05 00:001 edit
    Originally posted by Deepfault
    I want to vote but I dont know anything about any of the contestants.

    Any recommendations anyone? Do they have manifestos that I can read.

    What will they actually be doing again and what skills will they need?

    Should I just vote ...[text shortened]... ot vote at all and let those that know these people make the call?
    If you want to learn more about those involved, then I suggest checking their previous posts and where they stand on these issues and how much knowledge of the game they have. Although a short biblio of each candidate might not hurt, but I don't think these guys are into becoming politicians and that seems like a lot of work outside the field of being a qualified cheat police.
  5. Standard memberArrakis
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    06 Jan '05 00:20
    Originally posted by Exy
    Agreed, David Tebb is the ideal candidate. I also know that Arrakis was a Computer Buster at ICC for a long time and he is very experienced. Greyeyesofsorrow has also been very good at analysing games so far I have found.
    Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give some info about myself:

    I am a free lance writer for Chess Life, previous editor of Michigan Chess, and have been writing chess analysis for magazines since 1978. My highest rating at USCF was around 2150 many years ago. After a few years off my rating dropped and I bounce between Class A and Expert.

    I was a manager and computer buster for ICC for a couple of years and have trained many others in the technique. There is a lot more to the art of computer busting than just matching moves. Many of the members here were upset with me when I didn't immediately agree that a member (jameswoodley) was cheating... that's because, regardless of what people may say, one has to look at the statistical analysis of many games. The games immediately presented to me did not show computer abuse, and I never let feelings get in the way of fact.

    I think I would be good for this assignment because of this reason. I would appreciate your vote..

    Thanks,
    Arrakis
  6. London
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    06 Jan '05 00:26
    Originally posted by arrakis
    Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give some info about myself:

    I am a free lance writer for Chess Life, previous editor of Michigan Chess, and have been writing chess analysis for magazines since 1978. My highest rating at USCF was around 2150 many years ago. After a few years off my rating dropped and I bounce between Class A and Expert.

    I was a ...[text shortened]... for this assignment because of this reason. I would appreciate your vote..

    Thanks,
    Arrakis
    That gets my vote
  7. Standard memberGalaxyShield
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    06 Jan '05 00:361 edit
    Chess life ey? I like that magazine, got a lot of nice puzzles and articles 🙂. Who knows, I might have read some of your stuff 🙂.
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jan '05 03:30
    Originally posted by arrakis
    Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give some info about myself:

    I am a free lance writer for Chess Life, previous editor of Michigan Chess, and have been writing chess analysis for magazines since 1978. My highest rating at USCF was around 2150 many years ago. After a few years off my rating dropped and I bounce between Class A and Expert.

    I was a ...[text shortened]... for this assignment because of this reason. I would appreciate your vote..

    Thanks,
    Arrakis
    I do not support Arrakis inclusion among the "cheat police". His retelling of the sad JW story completely ignores that he was informed that JW a barely 1200 player for many months was suddenly and abruptly winning every game against players rated hundreds of points higher. He constantly dodged the question of how such a below average player could make such a sudden and dramatic improvement without cheating of some sort. A player of his stated experience would know that it was impossible but he choose to sidestep the facts so that JW could be included on the Fun Clan clan league team that he is the captain of. This moral lapse disqualifies him in my eyes; one did not need detailed engine analysis to realize that JW was cheating - chess experience and common sense is sufficient. Arrakis ignored these to place a cheat in the clan leagues.

    Lest you think he was merely giving a player every benefit of the doubt, he has since publicly accused players of other teams of cheating on far less evidence than that against Woodley. Of course, these players were NOT on his team! The members of the "cheat police" must be people of chess and engine knowledge which he has. However, they must be also people of integrity willing to go where the facts lead and damn the consequences. I will not support someone of such questionable judgment and urge others not to vote for Arrakis.
  9. Standard memberArrakis
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    06 Jan '05 03:42
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I do not support Arrakis inclusion among the "cheat police". His retelling of the sad JW story completely ignores that he was informed that JW a barely 1200 player for many months was suddenly and abruptly winning every game against players rated hundreds of points higher. He constantly dodged the question of how such a below average player could ...[text shortened]... will not support someone of such questionable judgment and urge others not to vote for Arrakis.
    I reserve the right to answer to such accusations...
    As I said earlier, the evidence submitted to me did not show jameswoodley was using a computer. Now I know that a lot of eople were upset with the man, that he showed some arrogance in his postings and such... again, I must remind everybody that we should only look at supported evidence and not let people influence our judgement simply because of their personal feelings.

    If anyone believes the charges displayed by no1marauder they can read his (many) messages and my replies to them. In every case the reader will see an emotional accusation followed by an attempt to find factual evidence. I do not want the game mods to become a witch hunt.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jan '05 03:55
    Originally posted by arrakis
    I reserve the right to answer to such accusations...
    As I said earlier, the evidence submitted to me did not show jameswoodley was using a computer. Now I know that a lot of eople were upset with the man, that he showed some arrogance in his postings and such... again, I must remind everybody that we should only look at supported evidence and not let peopl ...[text shortened]... ed by an attempt to find factual evidence. I do not want the game mods to become a witch hunt.
    Bull. I had no "personal feelings" toward Woodley at all. Unfortunately, the James Woodley thread has been deleted and one cannot see the posts where you fdodged the question of how a player of Woodley's real "ability" could experience such a dramatic increase in skill in a matter of days. You wouldn't answer the question because the answer is it's impossible. However, since you have chosen to make it an issue with your silly accusation that I had some personal, emotional bias against Woodley, I'll ask you the question again and you can answer it factually:

    James Woodley was a 1200 rated player for many months. The evidence suggests that he cheated to even acheive that level by playing rigged games against ian93 (who was either a 2nd account or a friend deliberately losing to JW). In late September without any prior improvement, he suddenly starting winning EVERY GAME against players of equal rating and then against players rated hundreds of points higher. Please explain as someone of such vast experience how he could do this without cheating as I'm sure there are numerous players on this site who'd like to know how to improve their game in a similar non-cheating fashion.
  11. Standard memberNemesio
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    06 Jan '05 04:45
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Lest you think he was merely giving a player every benefit of the doubt, he has since publicly accused players of other teams of cheating on far less evidence than that against Woodley. Of course, these players were NOT on his team! The members of the "cheat police" must be people of chess and engine knowledge which he has. However, they must be also p ...[text shortened]... will not support someone of such questionable judgment and urge others not to vote for Arrakis.
    The evidence damning JW was overwhelming. It was, in fact,
    the impetus for the 'Cheat Police;' people were outraged that
    a cheater would continue to play on this site in rated games
    and especially tournaments.

    By the end, any defense of JW was absolutely unconscionable.
    The fact that his clan leader and members weren't outraged by
    this fact and didn't insist that he be kicked from the clan is
    testament to the extent to which that clan desired to gain points
    and ascend, not on their own merits, but on the back of an
    demonstrable cheater.

    I don't know how anyone in good faith could vote for Arrakis.

    Nemesio
  12. Internet
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    06 Jan '05 05:10
    Originally posted by nemesio
    I don't know how anyone in good faith could vote for Arrakis.
    He has past experience unlike a lot of the other candidates. I'd prefer Arrakis over some average rated player with no experience, even though I found his stance on the whole JW issue too lenient.
  13. Standard memberExy
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    06 Jan '05 08:473 edits
    I think it's a tribute to Arrakis fair approach that he still gave JW the benefit of the doubt and considered him innoccent until he was convinced of the evidence that he was guilty. I would have thought this level of fair mindedness and attention to detail were exactly the qualities one would want in a Game Moderator.

    We need a mix of people clearly and should welcome those that have the depth of experience at analysing games and tools to do it, not just people going on hearsay, hunches or prejudices. If we end up with Witchfinder Generals in the role it would make for a very nasty community indeed!
  14. Standard memberRagnorak
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    06 Jan '05 11:241 edit
    Originally posted by arrakis
    I reserve the right to answer to such accusations...
    As I said earlier, the evidence submitted to me did not show jameswoodley was using a computer. Now I know that a lot of eople were upset with the man, that he showed some arrogance in ...[text shortened]... al evidence. I do not want the game mods to become a witch hunt.
    As the JW threads are gone, and seeing as some people are unhappy with your analysis of JW, would you mind doing a similar hypothetical analysis of another player, say DiabloDk? Diablo seems to be a quite similar case to JW, and it would be interesting to see your thoughts.

    While I don't doubt you for a minute, we can all come on here and claim to be somebody we aren't. For example, instead of being a engine buster, I own a 300mph dirtbike, am a skateboarding champion and I'm extremely rich.

    D
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jan '05 14:55
    Originally posted by Exy
    I think it's a tribute to Arrakis fair approach that he still gave JW the benefit of the doubt and considered him innoccent until he was convinced of the evidence that he was guilty. I would have thought this level of fair mindedness and attention to detail were exactly the qualities one would want in a Game Moderator.

    We need a mix of people clearly and ...[text shortened]... we end up with Witchfinder Generals in the role it would make for a very nasty community indeed!
    UMM, by the way, in case you people who keep calling "witchhunters" the ones who very publicly accused Woodley and Tlai1992 of being cheaters forget - THEY WERE! I await, again, Arrakis' answer to my above question and I'll probably wait in vain as I did before in the James Woodley thread (now departed). Clan loyalties should have no part in the determinations of the cheat police but it is unsurprising that one of Arrakis' clan leaders is defending him for allowing a cheater to play on a clan league team, albeit of a different clan. The 'cheat police" cannot afford having someone who would let such a factor weigh so heavily (compare Arrakis' treatment of JW with his accusations against Geoffkus on far less evidence).
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