A few questions for the unbelievers

Originally posted by Joe Fist
[b]Are you not at all interested in wanting to know about any possibility?

Not really. I think there are many common beliefs out there that describe humanity’s moral sense. But, at this point, it’s really moot. I guess my original answer to this question of being agnostic was inaccurate because now I think it has nothing to do with one’s religion. ...[text shortened]... think discovering a universal moral sense is a direct connection to the existence of a God.
[/b]

Because they care about me & have taken enough interest in my life to make sure I’m on the right path or the path I want to be on.

What do you think causes family members to care for each other? Do you believe that there is life after death?

Sure: Death of a close family member, Becoming Handicapped, Winning the lottery, Learning you have a terminal illness

I am not sure if I understand you correctly. Do you mean to say that the death of a close family member and becoming handicapped can "enhance" your life?

While I will admit I have absolutely no interest in doing the research of going through these “scholarly books” I don’t believe there is historicalWhile I will admit I have absolutely no interest in doing the research of going through these “scholarly books” I don’t believe there is historical, without any shred of doubt, proof of: The Garden of Eden, Noah’s Ark, The 10 Commandments, The Immaculate Conception, Any of Jesus’s miracles, or the Resurrection. I am talking frontline ABC, worldwide news. These are just a few I can think of.

Do you think there is historical, without any shred of doubt, proof of anything that happened 2000 years ago? Do you for example believe that there is historical, without any shred of doubt, proof of the "big bang" or the evolutionary process that has happened 5 billion years ago or has been happening over the past 5 billion years? If not then how do you think we got here? Do you believe that we can be sure about anything that happened before our time?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Dj stopped posting for a while. I had hoped he'd been banned or something. Oh well.

Ever heard of a tight schedule? 🙂

Originally posted by Joe Fist

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

If man is a moral being then where does the lack of morality come from?

Originally posted by frogstomp
and how do you explain it only takes until the second sentence before it begins to get incoherent?

1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon
the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.

and erroneous.

I cannot fully comprehend the confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.

Originally posted by dj2becker
From whence comes humanity's universal moral sense?

If man is nothing but the random arrangement of molecules, what motivates you to care and to live honorably in the world?

How do you explain the radically changed lives of so many ...[text shortened]... adiction has been answered in an intelligible and credible manner?

Shame these are all plaigerized. Don't you have an original thought?

But I wouldn't want Darfius or Ivanhoe to think I wasn't willing to answer them.

From whence comes humanity's universal moral sense?

Most morals convey an increased chance of survival on the communities that have a good moral sense - eg thou should not kill, rape, murder etc (though the Bible is full of God asking people to kill in his name). Therefore universal morality is an evolutionary development that has become in most people instinct.

If man is nothing but the random arrangement of molecules, what motivates you to care and to live honorably in the world?

See answer to the moral question. It confers an increased chance of the survival of the organism's DNA.

How do you explain the radically changed lives of so many Christian believers down through history?

I don't and is it necessary to?

What do you say about the hundreds of scholarly books that carefully document the veracity and reliability of the Bible?

Most of the early ones were written to support the Church so that it could become richer and more powerful. Anyone who wrote anything critical was BURNT AT THE STAKE in God's name. Don't you love these so called Christians?. And as for anything written in modern times for every pro-Bible book, you can find just as many scholarly papers attacking the accuracy of the Bible.

How did 35-40 men, spanning 1500 years and living on three separate continents, ever manage to author one unified message, i.e. the Bible?

Unified? Lacking in contradictions? Don't make me laugh...

Are you aware that every alleged Bible contradiction has been answered in an intelligible and credible manner?

NOPE. Who says they are intelligible and credible?

Now that wasn't a very hard exam. Thank you. But perhaps next time you may wish to use your God given intellect to come up with something original.

Originally posted by Maustrauser

Most morals convey an increased chance of survival on the communities that have a good moral sense - eg thou should not kill, rape, murder etc (though the Bible is full of God asking people to kill in his name). Therefore universal morality is an evolutionary development that has become in most people instinct.

If man is nothing but the random arra ...[text shortened]... aps next time you may wish to use your God given intellect to come up with something original.

Most morals convey an increased chance of survival on the communities that have a good moral sense - eg thou should not kill, rape, murder etc (though the Bible is full of God asking people to kill in his name). Therefore universal morality is an evolutionary development that has become in most people instinct.

From what did morality evolve? Are you saying that evolutionary development is also extinct in most people? Or do you mean to say that people without morality have stopped evolving? Has this ever been observed?

See answer to the moral question. It confers an increased chance of the survival of the organism's DNA.

But you are saying that it is extinct in most people, so do you mean to say that the evolutionary development process has stopped? If so then how do you know that it has ever taken place?

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]Most morals convey an increased chance of survival on the communities that have a good moral sense - eg thou should not kill, rape, murder etc (though the Bible is full of God asking people to kill in his name). Therefore universal morality is an evolutionary development that has become in most people instinct.

From what did morality evolve? Are ...[text shortened]... development process has stopped? If so then how do you know that it has ever taken place?


[/b]

instinct, not extinct!

Originally posted by Redmike
instinct, not extinct!

Thank you Redmike.

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Henry

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]Because they care about me & have taken enough interest in my life to make sure I’m on the right path or the path I want to be on.

What do you think causes family members to care for each other? Do you believe that there is li ...[text shortened]... can be sure about anything that happened before our time?



[/b]

What do you think causes family members to care for each other? Do you believe that there is life after death?

Instinct. The same instinct in most animals to care for their young. Although I cannot prove this but I will go out on a limb and say animals do not possess the concept of God as humans do yet most of them protect their offspring. I don’t know if there is an “afterlife” but I like to think we continue to exist in some form. Again, this is why I am agnostic.

I am not sure if I understand you correctly. Do you mean to say that the death of a close family member and becoming handicapped can "enhance" your life?

Actually that is my mistake. I believe your initial question was: How do you explain the radically changed lives of so many Christian believers down through history? My initial response was:

Many people lives have changed for various reasons (some religious conversion, tragedy, could be anything). While I won't argue that Christianity has made some folks lives better, I think there are a great many things outside of Christianity that have also enhanced a person's life. So what I should have wrote was a person’s life can be altered due to numerous events, regardless of it being enhanced or worsened.


Do you think there is historical, without any shred of doubt, proof of anything that happened 2000 years ago? Do you for example believe that there is historical, without any shred of doubt, proof of the "big bang" or the evolutionary process that has happened 5 billion years ago or has been happening over the past 5 billion years? If not then how do you think we got here? Do you believe that we can be sure about anything that happened before our time?

I don’t know if there is any factual data that supports any events of 2000 years ago, the “big bang” theory, or Evolution. Both the “big bang” and Evolution are again “theories” which does not claim to be fact but “an assumption based on limited information or knowledge”. I imagine you could see the perspective from a non-Christian as the Bible being a written “theory” for Christians to interpret the creation of the universe, the definition of God, and the explanation of an afterlife. I am not attempting to wallow in ignorance but I have no theory as to how we (human beings, the world, the universe, etc) as to how we arrived. Again this is what defines me as “agnostic” and I am content with that.😉

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]
"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

If man is a moral being then where does the lack of morality come from? [/b]

Same place as morality comes from: the influence and environment of the individual.

Originally posted by Joe Fist
Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]What do you think causes family members to care for each other? Do you believe that there is life after death?

Instinct. The same instinct in most animals to care for their young. Although I cannot prove this but I will go out on a limb and say animals do not possess the concept of God as humans do yet mos ...[text shortened]... as to how we arrived. Again this is what defines me as “agnostic” and I am content with that.😉[/b]

I'd just like to make a quick interjection.

Most animals care for their young, yes. But this ends, instinctually, on average within a year or two (just mammals, all other animals simply lay their eggs and leave). And after that, they would be just as willing to have sex with their children or eat them.

Would it be OK for human parents to have sex with their children after a few years or cook one of them up if they don't feel like running to the store?

Originally posted by Darfius
I'd just like to make a quick interjection.

Most animals care for their young, yes. But this ends, instinctually, on average within a year or two (just mammals, all other animals simply lay their eggs and leave). And after that, they would be just as willing to have sex with their children or eat them.

Would it be OK for human parents to have sex w ...[text shortened]... children after a few years or cook one of them up if they don't feel like running to the store?

I really don't know of any cases where a parent mammal eats their young? I imagine if its a runt or it had been maimed in a previous attack this could be possible. Do you have any examples?

I imagine fornication is most likely rampant in some species because they don't ascribe the taboo nature of incest. It's simply out of necessity and I believe in dolphins, pleasure.

But the point I was attempting to make was that initially and instinctually, most mammals (including humans) possess the capacity to care for their offspring. While I and most people would find it morally reprehensible for us to consider cooking or fornicating with our children, this is due to the values mankind has created.

Originally posted by Joe Fist
I really don't know of any cases where a parent mammal eats their young? I imagine if its a runt or it had been maimed in a previous attack this could be possible. Do you have any examples?

I imagine fornication is most likely rampant in some species because they don't ascribe the taboo nature of incest. It's simply out of necessity and I believe i ...[text shortened]... onsider cooking or fornicating with our children, this is due to the values mankind has created.

Why would mankind alone, out of all species on earth, come up with these values that deny pleasure and conveniance?

Male lions eat their young if the mothers don't protect them. All big cats do the same.

Originally posted by Darfius
Why would mankind alone, out of all species on earth, come up with these values that deny pleasure and conveniance?

Male lions eat their young if the mothers don't protect them. All big cats do the same.

Interesting about the big cats. While we are in likeness to other animals by being warmed blooded and in other ways, I think its safe to say we are far most sophisticated.

I have no concrete answer to your question as to why mankind embraces a moral code? A valid argument can be made that it is the will of Christ, as you and many believe. I also think valid arguments can made from other beliefs as well. I could be mistaken but I believe dj2becker is attempting to have me reason that our morality comes from a higher existence and that being Jesus Christ. I'm not attempting to refute that but I also don't believe this is conclusive statement either.

Originally posted by Joe Fist
Interesting about the big cats. While we are in likeness to other animals by being warmed blooded and in other ways, I think its safe to say we are far most sophisticated.

I have no concrete answer to your question as to why mankind embraces a moral code? A valid argument can be made that it is the will of Christ, as you and many believe. I also thin ...[text shortened]... 'm not attempting to refute that but I also don't believe this is conclusive statement either.

Well, if you were to admit it had to come from a higher being, we could then prove why it had to be Jesus Christ.