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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member dj2becker
    Hoarse whisperer
    17 Oct '17 09:05
    According to the Christian faith, if you are not a follower of Jesus, are you a follower of Satan? Or is there another option?
  2. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    17 Oct '17 10:10
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    According to the Christian faith, if you are not a follower of Jesus, are you a follower of Satan? Or is there another option?
    You could be a follower of AC/DC.
  3. Standard member dj2becker
    Hoarse whisperer
    17 Oct '17 10:12
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    You could be a follower of AC/DC.
    Sure but I am asking from a Christian perspective.
  4. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    17 Oct '17 10:18
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Sure but I am asking from a Christian perspective.
    According to the Christian dogma, such a perspective is non-existent
  5. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    17 Oct '17 10:40 / 1 edit
    There are many passages which show the evil spirit is just operating or working in mankind in general.

    " ... you once walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience;

    Among whom we also all conducted ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts,

    and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest." (See Eph. 2:2-3)


    1.) Some human beings are coming out of a situation.
    2.) As to their past they were operated on by a evil spirit in the air.
    3.) They previously conducted themselves in the lusts of flesh and thoughts stirred up by the "ruler" of the operating spirit. Paul includes himself, saying "we also".
    4.) This made them by 'nature" children of the wrath of God coming because of these things.

    Though some have been saved from this, there is no indication that automatically those saved can no longer live this way. Otherwise there would be no need for exhortation NOT to continue to follow that course.

    "This therefore I say and testify in the Lord, that you NO LONGER walk as the Gentiles also walk in the vanity of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God ... etc. etc." (4:17,18)


    He is saying "Christians, don't live in that manner any longer."
    This means the possiblity exists that they could continue to live the old way.

    He exhorts and "testifies" - "This therefore ... I testify in the Lord".
    This should mean that he has personal experience that it is not mandatory or inevitable that they continue to follow the previous course. He knows and can testify that the life of Christ within can empower Christians to walk another way.

    So who are you following is more nuanced then a binary matter.

    Paul says they should walk worthily of their new calling.

    "I beseech you therefore, I, the prisoner of the Lord, to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called." (4:1)


    It would then be naive to suggest - "All Christians don't follow the old way of life. All Christians only follow Jesus Christ."

    Well, Paul says that in ALL THINGS we are to grow up into Christ. This indicates that in SOME things Christians may still be following the wrong course - Satan. And they should grow up to follow the new life in Christ in every thing, all things, each thing, without limits of preference.

    "But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ." (4:15)
  6. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    17 Oct '17 10:45 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    According to the Christian dogma, such a perspective is non-existent
    Two millennia Christian influence and there is no Christian perspective?

    Some of you guys seem to be way too drunk with the stupor of modern entertainment.

    You could be a follower of AC/DC.
  7. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    17 Oct '17 11:24
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Two millennia Christian influence and there is no Christian perspective?

    Some of you guys seem to be way too drunk with the stupor of modern entertainment.

    You could be a follower of AC/DC.
    It is my knowledge that the Christian dogma has just a single one perspective: To ease each human being to be saved by means of its unison with G-d. This perspective must be accepted as is. If it is rejected, No Fruit.

    According to the dogma, one's unison takes place strictly through Jesus. Jesus is The Bridge between Humanity and G-d. No one follows a Bridge; one just crosses the Bridge, and so one is enabled at last to go to one's destination.
    The specific ways that show what one has to do in order to unite with G-d, are not perspectives. The specific ways that show what other supernatural forces operate in Kosmos, are not perspectives.

    The way I understand it, the Christian dogma does not teach any perspective other than the one I mentioned above. If there is another perspective, kindly please educate me
  8. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    17 Oct '17 11:42
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    It is my knowledge that the Christian dogma has just a single one perspective: To ease each human being to be saved by means of its unison with G-d. This perspective must be accepted as is. If it is rejected, No Fruit.

    According to the dogma, one's unison takes place strictly through Jesus. Jesus is The Bridge between Humanity and G-d. No one follo ...[text shortened]... ther than the one I mentioned above. If there is another perspective, kindly please educate me
    You said according to Christian dogma there is no perspective. Now you say according to Christian dogma there is one.

    Do you mean there is None Christian perspective or there is One Christian perspective?


    dj2becker:
    Sure but I am asking from a Christian perspective.

    black-beetle:

    According to the Christian dogma, such a perspective is non-existent
  9. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    17 Oct '17 12:17
    Originally posted by @sonship
    You said according to Christian dogma there is no perspective. Now you say according to Christian dogma there is one.

    Do you mean there is None Christian perspective or there is One Christian perspective?


    dj2becker:
    Sure but I am asking from a Christian perspective.

    black-beetle:

    According to the Christian dogma, such a perspective is non-existent
    You misunderstood what I said.

    Our dj2becker asked whether “According to the Christian faith, if you are not a follower of Jesus, are you a follower of Satan? Or is there another option?”, and I told him that this perspective is non-existent.

    Existent is the single one perspective I showed you –this one: A Christian has definitely to unite with G-d through Jesus. It is "Take it or leave it". If one’s decision is to reject this perspective, he is not a Christian. And if his decision is to be a Christian, he will simply cross the Bridge. I do not acknowledge any other perspective than this.
  10. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    17 Oct '17 12:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    It is my knowledge that the Christian dogma has just a single one perspective: To ease each human being to be saved by means of its unison with G-d. This perspective must be accepted as is. If it is rejected, No Fruit.

    According to the dogma, one's unison takes place strictly through Jesus. Jesus is The Bridge between Humanity and G-d. No one follo ...[text shortened]... ther than the one I mentioned above. If there is another perspective, kindly please educate me
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I read and study the Bible much and for a long time.
    I believe that there is something to God judging people according to the light that they have.

    When the Bible says at the end that the sons of God will reign forever and ever (Rev. 22:5) , I believe that it does not mean that they reign over each other. Therefore there has to be some people in that universe over whom the sons of God (in union with God by His indwelling life and nature) reign over and become a ongoing blessing to saved human beings who are not joined to God as sons.

    We are told to obey that Gospel.
    Surely though, we are not told in the Bible everything.

    This belief lands me in trouble with mainstream evangelical Christianity of the Protestant reformation. But I think I can defend it. But I am not going to spend a lot of time on it now.

    Humans die before being born.
    How will God deal with them? I don't know.

    Humans die very young after being born before an age of ability to be accountable for some things. How will God deal with them? I don't know.

    Humans are impaired and cannot hear or think properly to communicate with others or with writing. How will God deal with them? I don't know.

    Humans are ignorant of the Gospel though creation itself tells them something about God.

    Humans are given such misrepresentations and distortions of the truth that only God knows what it really is that they are choosing not to believe.

    Having indicated these things I would add that it would be a mistake to attempt to use diversity or multi-cultural-ism as a rationale to reject what most of us know about Jesus the Savior.

    People can be told by God what is definite and how they are commanded to respond, without being told by God everything.

    Deuteronomy 29:29, I think aptly says.

    New American Standard Bible
    "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.

    King James Bible
    The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    The hidden things belong to the LORD our God, but the revealed things belong to us and our children forever, so that we may follow all the words of this law."
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    17 Oct '17 12:59
    So are Jews followers of "Satan"?
  12. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    17 Oct '17 13:21
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I read and study the Bible much and for a long time.
    I believe that there is something to God judging people according to the light that they have.

    When the Bible says at the end that the sons of God will reign forever and ever [b](Rev. 22:5)
    , I believe that it does not mean that they reign over each other. Therefo ...[text shortened]... ong to us and our children forever, so that we may follow all the words of this law."
    [/quote][/b]
    Whatever one knows or ignores about Jesus, is depended on the sharpness of his evaluation alone. It is my knowledge that there are multiple levels of sensemaking as regards the Abrahamic religions and surely in the context of the Christian tradition too.

    In order to accept or to discard anything (religious dogmas, theories of reality and everything else), methinks one has to conduct exhausting evaluation by means of deep study, concrete analysis and deep meditation.
    As regards your own tradition sonship, this I know: once one knows he is balanced on faith, which is a must because it is the stepping stone that will enable him to make the first step in his chosen spiritual journey in the realm of his personal Special Knowledge, one starts to cultivate one's mind according to one's depth and he builds accordingly. You are there.
  13. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    17 Oct '17 13:22
    Originally posted by @fmf
    So are Jews followers of "Satan"?
    No
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    17 Oct '17 13:30
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    No
    It's a question for Christians.
  15. Standard member dj2becker
    Hoarse whisperer
    17 Oct '17 14:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @black-beetle
    It is my knowledge that the Christian dogma has just a single one perspective: To ease each human being to be saved by means of its unison with G-d. This perspective must be accepted as is. If it is rejected, No Fruit.

    According to the dogma, one's unison takes place strictly through Jesus. Jesus is The Bridge between Humanity and G-d. No one follo ...[text shortened]... ther than the one I mentioned above. If there is another perspective, kindly please educate me
    So would you agree that from the Christian perspective a person is either a follower of God or a follower of Satan?