Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThink of it like this I don't need for it to freeze to know it is hotter than before, I don't need it to go dark to realize it's lighter than before.
I often look at the front covers of those WatchTower leaflets, where the lions are sitting down happily with the lambs and everyone is holding hands and singing, and pray to God that if heaven does exist, it's nothing like that.
As Jung rightly observed, in order to know and appreciate happiness, we need to have moments where things are not so eup ...[text shortened]...
(Footnote: The above is posted with a jovial countenance and no intention is meant to insult).
Originally posted by FabianFnasIf you take someone's word over scripture you loose, that is like asking for different student views of a test question while rejecting the answer booklet.
Give me two independent sources with information about hell, and I am satisfied.
Given that ten christians give ten different explanations it's not too much to ask.
Originally posted by KellyJayI guess King Solomon, King David and Rajk999, will be sipping ice cold Coronas in Hell then. Looking forward to that... 😀
... Calling someone a fool is enough to put you in danger of Hell,
You will be in.. wherever .. holding hands with sonship and watching us being 'tormented'.
Originally posted by KellyJaySo there aren't any other sources than the 3000 years ideas? Everything there after are either referencing those old ideas from a lost world, or invented by writers and authors from the more modern world, like Dante Alighieri.
If you take someone's word over scripture you loose, that is like asking for different student views of a test question while rejecting the answer booklet.
Just as I thought. Case closed
Originally posted by FabianFnasWell when God shares what else is needed?
So there aren't any other sources than the 3000 years ideas? Everything there after are either referencing those old ideas from a lost world, or invented by writers and authors from the more modern world, like Dante Alighieri.
Just as I thought. Case closed
Originally posted by KellyJayNot only. I say more, thank you for asking!
So you say
Hell is something to scare your children with so they obey you without questioning.
Spiritual leaders have scared their followers from the beginning, someone wrote it in the scrolls, and we can read it today in the bible.
Parents do it, they call it bogeyman or monster under your bed, to scare to obedience. They use Santa Claus and tooth fairy to encourage children to be nice. (Or else...!)
In every time, in every culture, there are mythical entities to make the lesser knowers to control them. To make them obey or just to be nice to people with powers.
I say christians are manipulated. Taken away their freedom of thinking. To obey. To worship, not god, but the spiritual leaders (the pope, the priest, the king etc), or their organization (the church, the government, etc). To be a sheep, to use the biblical term for it. The same goes to every religion that has power. Religious people are manipulated.
We live in the twenty-first century, but some live their lives as it is still twenty-first century BCE. But I am sure that times will change and rationality will rule in the near future.
Religion is evil. Believing and worshiping in a god, calling him good and loveful, yet created and organize eternal hell. Allowing cancer in infants. Allowing wars in his name. Wanting theocracies as rulings and controlling lesser educated people. And so on, and so on...
You ask me what to say? This is what I say.
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Originally posted by Rajk999My comment was that in the case of Matthew 25:41,46 the "wrath of God is indeed equivalent to "eternal punishment" or torment as Rajk999 says.
This Rajk999 replies:
In that case... yes. The wrath of God is against the Devil and his angels and the bible says they will be eternally tormented.
In this case why should I suspect that the case would be different for those who depart to be in the same place ?
" ... Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (v.41)
There is precious little to NOTHING indicating the result for these who accompany "the devil and his angels" will be different.
If it is a BLUFF and the "eternal fire" contains ONLY the devil and his angels then Christ is being deceitful to dishonestly imply these OTHER beings (humans in this case) are going to the same dreadful fate.
Do you then feel Christ was bluffing ?
If so how do you justify this dishonesty from the Son of God to even TEACH that some lost human sinners accompany the devil and his angels to the "eternal punishment" of the "eternal fire" ?
If the fate of the accompanying humans is different, that is God's business. No one should want to be "CURSED" so as to be CLASSED with "the devil and his angels".
Lumping every innocent human in that because they know nothing about God is dumb.
1.) If these lost sinners are "cursed" then they are not innocent.
2.) Concerning the near final warning in the Bible on "the lake of fire" see if you can discern the difference between the two sentences below:
The alleged version which you attribute to me of Revelation 20:15
And the innocent were cast into the lake of fire. [total twist of Rev. 20:15 ]
Compared to:
"And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)
There is a difference.
The LATTER is what the word of God says.
The former is what you are assuming that I believe because I believe Revelation 20:15. .
Originally posted by sonshipDo you have a good psychiatrist nearby ? Go pay him a visit.
My comment was that in the case of [b]Matthew 25:41,46 the "wrath of God is indeed equivalent to "eternal punishment" or torment as Rajk999 says.
This Rajk999 replies:In that case... yes. The wrath of God is against the Devil and his angels and the bible says they will be eternally tormented.
In this case why sh ...[text shortened]... rmer is what you are assuming that I believe because I believe Revelation 20:15. .[/b]
Then go take some lessons in English Comprehension.