Originally posted by sonshipBrief!!!! .. 😀So to be clear on your ideology on this:
My comments will be brief.
Jesus creates mankind
Before God created man God created the angels. The chiefest of them [b] Day Star [Lucifer Latin] sought to make himself like the Most High and usurp the very authority of God.
It appears that God utilized this creat ...[text shortened]... orship before You, for Your righteous judgments have been manifested." (Rev. 14:4) [/b] [/quote][/b]
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-Removed-That's a nice generalization. But the "mix up" I don't see you demonstrate.
Will you choose to be with Satan in the lake of fire (if such was possible) ?
Or will you be pouting and miserable in the New Jerusalem that Satan was right after-all in accusing God of injustice ?
Will you inform Jesus Christ that Satan was right about Him and His Father ?
ie. They are not true and not righteous and even not holy ?
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-Removed-
You're asking me to speculate on how I'd react in a supernatural situation that I don't believe will ever exist?
I think the question was framed as IF you discover that there is eternal punishment.
These are matters of "What is a good interpretation of these words in the Bible?"
My question was framed that IF you find out that your preferred understanding of these difficult passages is not to your expectation, how will you react ?
There is no complaint against the heart of God that you tell me that has not been first in the accusations of Satan. Your complaints are rehash of very old ones said by legions of Satan's hosts before.
" And behold, they [the demons] cried out, saying, What do we have to do with You, Son of God ? Have You come here before the time to torment us ?" (Matt. 8:29)
Is there that much a difference in how you protest to me? Essentially you are rehashing this objection -
ie. " Sonship, has your Jesus the Lord and Savior come here to torment any of us ? "
Your basic complaint is "Johnny-come-lately" rehash. The demons already protested that Jesus had no business sending them to torment of the last judgment (at least not too soon).
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-Removed-
So it all makes perfect sense to you?
It makes sense.
If there is above God, beyond God, transcendent to God, higher than God, a higher and more good referee then it doesn't make that much sense.
But if God is a goodness to which a greater is impossible - it makes sad sense.
Having said that, I remind you that I have written before that there are some unknowns to me. Concerning even the wrath of God, there are presently some unknowns (Rev. 10:3,4) .
In the end I expect to be surprised by some things as to the infinite wisdom and infinite knowledge of God. I expect that some things presently are unknown - but not to the point that I don't believe what seems clearly presented.
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"You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness ..." (Hebrews 1:9)
This verse implies that because Christ loves something He HATES something opposite to it.
What is the by-product of having a perfect Divine love ?
Do you feel Christ should love righteousness and also love lawlessness too ?
Do you think God should force the legions of those dedicated to Satan to be where they do not want to be ?
Look here how men could be SO hardened that they REFUSE to repent no matter what.
" And men were burned with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God, who has the authority over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory." (Rev. 16:9)
Apparently, as suffering as they are, they are enjoying something of being against God, so much, that they do not care. This is what Satan can do to the human mind.
" And the fifth poured out his bowl upon the throne of the beast; and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues for pain and blasphemed the God of heaven for their pains and for their sores; and they did not repent of their works." (v.11)
They are so intoxicated with the thrill of actually opposing God ... GOD, that its enjoyment means more to them it seems then rescue from divine judgment.
Some in the book of Revelation however, have better sense.
" ... and seven thousand men were killed in the earthquake, and the rest became terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven." (11:13b)
God will cause the situation on this earth to become polarized.
We should not wait for this great polarization for or against the Almighty to come.
In the atmosphere of the presentation of the love and grace of the Savior Jesus, we should come to God to be saved.
-Removed-
How does a loving God designing a place of unimaginable eternal torment for people who simply fail to believe in him, possibly make any sense whatsoever?
Probably for the lost to step OUT of that place and into the light of the love and glory of the Holy One they have rejected, would be greater agony.
This lake of fire is the ultimate escape from God, as bad as it is.
-Removed-I suspect that no Christian wants to hear this but the Bible is not clear on some of these doctrines and neither is it Gods intention to be clear on matters like these. Hence it is not smart to make any drastic conclusion on this matter of eternal torment.
For me I know the Bible says that there are just a few beings that will be tormented for eternity. To go ahead and apply that punishment to all unbelievers is the stupid thing Christians do. A flawed personality gravitates to that doctrine in my opinion.
There are many other writings of early Jews which shed some light on this, plus the Midrash writings of Jewish scholars are also useful and is a real eyeopener.