1. Joined
    05 Jan '04
    Moves
    45179
    23 Sep '05 13:51
    Originally posted by Blindfaith101:
    "Everyone has the chance, to accept the love and Sacrifice that JESUS CHRIST gave. Therefore we all have the power to prevent the sufferring of going to Hell."

    This is a large point of contention with me, as I've mentioned before. Evangelical Christians in these forums have stated several times that all people are given a chance to accept and receive Jesus Christ into their hearts. My question to the Christians on this site is how many of you believe this to be true? How many of you believe that all of mankind is given a fair opportunity to hear the gospel and receive Christ into their hearts in order to save themselves from eternal torture and torment? And if you do not agree with blindfaith101, then please state how a just, fair and loving God could send someone to suffer eternally without ever being given a fair chance to repent.

    As a supplemental thought, wouldn't a fair and just God give everyone an equal opportunity to accept Christ? Surely, a nomadic aborigine in Australia, an African tribe member or a lifelong Hindu in a small village in India have not been inundated with Christian dogma like most of you rich white folk. Is this an unfair geographic advantage that God has set up?
  2. Standard memberJoe Fist
    Troubador
    Land of Fist
    Joined
    28 Sep '04
    Moves
    19305
    23 Sep '05 14:271 edit
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Originally posted by Blindfaith101:
    [b]"Everyone has the chance, to accept the love and Sacrifice that JESUS CHRIST gave. Therefore we all have the power to prevent the sufferring of going to Hell."


    This is a large point of contention with me, as I've mentioned before. Evangelical Christians in these forums have stated several times that [ ...[text shortened]... a like most of you rich white folk. Is this an unfair geographic advantage that God has set up?[/b]
    Actually I have a different take on it and I can't help but think what a meglomaniac God is. So let me see if I have this straight:

    God created us in His image and if we don't love Him and serve Him we are doomed to spend an eternity in endless pain and suffering which He created? God has set up all the conditions:

    From the movie, The Devil's Advocate:

    Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, ****ing butt off. He's a tight-###. He's a sadist.
  3. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    23 Sep '05 14:351 edit
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    Actually I have a different take on it and I can't help but think what a meglomaniac God is. So let me see if I have this straight:

    God created us in His image and if we don't love Him and serve Him we are doomed to spend an eternity in endless pain and suffering which He created? God has set up all the conditions:

    From the movie, [i]The Devil's ...[text shortened]... what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, ****ing butt off. He's a tight-###. He's a sadist.
    [/i]Sigh.
  4. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    23 Sep '05 14:40
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Originally posted by Blindfaith101:
    [b]"Everyone has the chance, to accept the love and Sacrifice that JESUS CHRIST gave. Therefore we all have the power to prevent the sufferring of going to Hell."


    This is a large point of contention with me, as I've mentioned before. Evangelical Christians in these forums have stated several times that [ ...[text shortened]... a like most of you rich white folk. Is this an unfair geographic advantage that God has set up?[/b]
    I don't think all people will have an equal chance of hearing about Christ, however, all people do have a conscience. I believe God will view us by the amount of light we have recieved.
  5. Joined
    05 Jan '04
    Moves
    45179
    23 Sep '05 14:50
    Originally posted by Halitose
    I don't think all people will have an equal chance of hearing about Christ, however, all people do have a conscience. I believe God will view us by the amount of light we have recieved.
    How do you reconcile your statement with John 3, in which Jesus tells Nicodemus, "...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" ?
  6. Standard memberwib
    Stay outta my biznez
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    9020
    23 Sep '05 14:51
    Originally posted by Halitose
    I don't think all people will have an equal chance of hearing about Christ, however, all people do have a conscience. I believe God will view us by the amount of light we have recieved.
    I believe God will view us by the amount of light we have recieved.

    That's just more gray area piled on top of gray area. So a person who has never heard a single word of God (the Christian version) gets a free pass into heaven when they die? Then someone like myself, who's surrounded with a church on every corner, has a higher standard to meet to get into heaven?
  7. London
    Joined
    02 Mar '04
    Moves
    36083
    23 Sep '05 14:52
    Originally posted by darvlay
    How do you reconcile your statement with John 3, in which Jesus tells Nicodemus, "...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" ?
    Can't the Greek for that verse also be read "except a man be born from above, he cannot see ..." etc.?
  8. Standard memberwib
    Stay outta my biznez
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    9020
    23 Sep '05 14:52
    Originally posted by darvlay
    How do you reconcile your statement with John 3, in which Jesus tells Nicodemus, "...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" ?
    Sorry Darv. I posted after you. We kind of asked the same thing. You just did it in a more succinct style. 🙂
  9. Joined
    05 Jan '04
    Moves
    45179
    23 Sep '05 14:53
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Can't the Greek for that verse also be read "except a man be born from above, he cannot see ..." etc.?
    Can it? I'm not familiar with the greek translation but I like where you're going... Please continue.
  10. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    23 Sep '05 14:54
    Originally posted by darvlay
    How do you reconcile your statement with John 3, in which Jesus tells Nicodemus, "...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" ?
    And you are interpreting this verse to mean?
  11. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    23 Sep '05 14:58
    Originally posted by wib
    [b]I believe God will view us by the amount of light we have recieved.

    That's just more gray area piled on top of gray area. So a person who has never heard a single word of God (the Christian version) gets a free pass into heaven when they die? Then someone like myself, who's surrounded with a church on every corner, has a higher standard to meet to get into heaven?[/b]
    Of course its gray. God will be doing the judging, not you or me. I believe in God's revealed moral law: firstly through our conscience and then through inspired scripture. We are answerable firstly to our conscience.
  12. Standard memberwib
    Stay outta my biznez
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    9020
    23 Sep '05 15:01
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Of course its gray. God will be doing the judging, not you or me. I believe in God's revealed moral law: firstly through our conscience and then through inspired scripture. We are answerable firstly to our conscience.
    Well I appreciate the attempted response Halitose. I really do. But it just sounds terribly vague to me. I suppose I'm just too literal to ever understand how anyone makes sense of religion. Maybe "sense" should never play a part in it?

    I still haven't seen anything that even remotely answers Darvlay's question.
  13. Joined
    05 Jan '04
    Moves
    45179
    23 Sep '05 15:04
    Originally posted by Halitose
    And you are interpreting this verse to mean?
    John 3:4-7

    4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    And then of course, John 3: 16 and 17

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Do these verses not give the criterium for which everlasting life may be granted? I interpret them to mean that you must a believer in Jesus Christ and believe in him as the Son of God and Saviour of Man.
  14. Colorado
    Joined
    11 May '04
    Moves
    11981
    23 Sep '05 15:10
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    Actually I have a different take on it and I can't help but think what a meglomaniac God is. So let me see if I have this straight:

    God created us in His image and if we don't love Him and serve Him we are doomed to spend an eternity in endless pain and suffering which He created? God has set up all the conditions:

    From the movie, [i]The Devil's ...[text shortened]... what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, ****ing butt off. He's a tight-###. He's a sadist.
    If you think about it, the devil delights in our confusion. Maybe the goal is to get to the point where we realize that earthly pleasures are lacking and God is the only comfort.
  15. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    23 Sep '05 15:12
    Originally posted by wib
    Well I appreciate the attempted response Halitose. I really do. But it just sounds terribly vague to me. I suppose I'm just too literal to ever understand how anyone makes sense of religion. Maybe "sense" should never play a part in it?

    I still haven't seen anything that even remotely answers Darvlay's question.
    Unfortunately, truth is like a diamond with many facets. You aren't condemned because you haven't heard of Christ:

    Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Back to Top