Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIt's not about gambling is it GB. I'd love to be able to believe in the Christian God, it would be great to have that unthinking certainty of my own persistence after death and to know that I understood life, the universe and everything. Unfortunately my mind will not allow me to disregard the obvious flaws in that position. I could not follow your faith even if it IS true, which, of course, it isn't.
[b]"a result not the means"
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household [if they also believe]". Acts 16:31 Good works: a result not the means of salvation. Why risk flawed logic or rationalization on your eternal address? We're either for or against the person and substitutionary work of Christ [His reconciliation of us to God the Father]. Back in October, 2014.[/b]
Originally posted by FMFSince you put it that way, there is no risk as long as what GB and I believe is false.
If one does not believe the claims that people like you and Grampy Bobby make, then why would one believe the claim that not believing is a "risk"?
But if you are wrong, then it is still not a risk. It is a sure thing that you will miss out on eternal life.
Originally posted by avalanchethecat"I could not follow your faith even if it IS true, which, of course, it isn't."
It's not about gambling is it GB. I'd love to be able to believe in the Christian God, it would be great to have that unthinking certainty of my own persistence after death and to know that I understood life, the universe and everything. Unfortunately my mind will not allow me to disregard the obvious flaws in that position. I could not follow your faith even if it IS true, which, of course, it isn't.
If you knew it was true what the Bible says about Jesus, especially His resurrection, you would still not believe?
I don't believe you.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYes, dive, I've been away and the "few months rest sabbatical" did serendipitously dovetail with the beginning of the 2014 NFL Season as well as an unanticipated medically related setback. This footnote to an unplanned synopsis thread motivated by Suzi's thoughtful reply on page one of "Ignoring Christ & Accepting Sin." beginning with "You're not doing yourself any favors..." Thread 160881 is about free will. That's the unsung beauty of human volition: you and those you love may keep
"a result not the means"
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household [if they also believe]". Acts 16:31 Good works: a result not the means of salvation. Why risk flawed logic or rationalization on your eternal address? We're either for or against the person and substitutionary work of Christ [His reconciliation of us to God the Father]. Back in October, 2014.
on seeking and searching privately for compelling answers and absolute truth without regard to the online peer pressure, disapproval and cunning ridicule of those who don't give a damn about the eventual home of their immaterial souls. -Bob
Originally posted by josephwIf you believe in the FSM you will get eternal life and an everlasting bowl of spaghetti.
Since you put it that way, there is no risk as long as what GB and I believe is false.
But if you are wrong, then it is still not a risk. It is a sure thing that you will miss out on eternal life.
If you don't believe your soul will simmer forever in the Lake of Hot Minestrone.
You have nothing to lose by believing.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhat "online peer pressure" do you feel, Grampy Bobby?
That's the unsung beauty of human volition: you and those you love may keep on seeking and searching privately for compelling answers and absolute truth without regard to the online peer pressure, disapproval and cunning ridicule of those who don't give a damn about the eventual home of their immaterial souls. -Bob
Originally posted by sonshipYou are missing the point, sonship. The point is wielding the idea of avoiding "risk" ~ as does this OP ~ as a supposed rationalization for believing something unbelievable.
LOL.
Grampy and me disagree on quite a bit behind the scenes. Trust me.
The "torture" thing doesn't give me "the ability to believe in Jesus Christ", as you put it. The "agony" thing doesn't work either. Nor does the "eternity" angle. Nor "revenge". Nor "punishment". Nor "justice". Nor "wrath". Nor "eternal damnation". Nor "burning flames".
Seriously, when all this peculiarly incredible and clumsy psychological 'pressure' does not give someone what you call "the ability to believe in Jesus Christ", why would a pompous sentence like "Why risk flawed logic or rationalization on your eternal address?" fare any better?
Originally posted by wolfgang59Choose not to believe you can have eternal life. Choose to believe nothing. That's what you'll get.
If you believe in the FSM you will get eternal life and an everlasting bowl of spaghetti.
If you don't believe your soul will simmer forever in the Lake of Hot Minestrone.
You have [b]nothing to lose by believing.[/b]
Or you can choose to believe the impossible. What a concept don't you think? Of all the choices there are in this life, why choose a dead end?
Originally posted by josephwOne cannot "choose" to believe something too far-fetched to believe. One could pretend, I suppose, but you reckon that's not what the OP is suggesting. The inevitability ~ for all of us ~ of the "dead end" you mention is unaffected by your assertions of your own immortality.
Choose not to believe you can have eternal life. Choose to believe nothing. That's what you'll get.
Or you can choose to believe the impossible. What a concept don't you think? Of all the choices there are in this life, why choose a dead end?
Originally posted by FMFPerhaps you could just shake your head and be on your way without disrespecting people or their beliefs? Yeah, I know, that's a stretch, huh.
What do you suggest a non-Christian do if he or she simply does not believe the same things as you and Grampy Bobby just so happen to believe?