1. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    16 Dec '18 10:52
    Nobody knows.
    But Science has a few good ideas.
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    16 Dec '18 11:38
    @wolfgang59 said
    Nobody knows.
    But Science has a few good ideas.
    Science has ideas, good or not remains to be seen.

    The thing is the truth about what happen is the discussion, and science falls short.
    Not because it is bad, it has our limitations and strengths. If God did it, I believe
    science could never know that, science studies what we see in the universe,
    nothing outside of the universe could ever be seen, so automatic blinders are
    there. We cannot go into the distant past to witness the beginning, we can only
    look at what is and wonder if our assumptions, beliefs, hypothesis, theories, best
    guesses are true. Truth would be where our beliefs actually agree with reality, and
    if we limit our possible causes to what is inside of the universe that may blind us to
    something far greater than the universe. Logically speaking the universe cannot
    create itself, that falls on its face, it has to be before it can create itself.
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    16 Dec '18 15:56
    @wolfgang59 said
    Nobody knows.
    But Science has a few good ideas.
    Not so, science has all the answers.

    YouTube
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    16 Dec '18 23:46
    @whodey said
    Not so, science has all the answers.

    [youtube]TUetJ3umTWU[/youtube]
    If you listen the guy says "... that is one hypothesis ..."
    He does not claim to know.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Dec '18 02:491 edit
    @wolfgang59 said
    If you listen the guy says "... that is one hypothesis ..."
    He does not claim to know.
    You think his hypothesis is reasonable, there some historical precident where this
    has occurred in our life times? We have seen people write code which puts a mind
    behind the effort, that we have seen in our life times, anything, anyone else?
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    @kellyjay said
    You think his hypothesis is reasonable, there some historical precident where this
    has occurred in our life times? We have seen people write code which puts a mind
    behind the effort, that we have seen in our life times, anything, anyone else?
    I have no opinion on the subject - it is outside of anything I have read or studied.
    But however life started we expect to see it happen in our lifetimes.

    How can you replicate billions of years in a lab?
  7. Subscriberdivegeester
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    17 Dec '18 08:001 edit
    @kellyjay said

    We cannot go into the distant past to witness the beginning, we can onlylook at what is and wonder if our assumptions, beliefs, hypothesis, theories, best
    guesses are true. Truth would be where our beliefs actually agree with reality, and
    if we limit our possible causes to what is inside of the universe that may blind us to
    something far greater than the universe. Logic ...[text shortened]... he universe cannot
    create itself, that falls on its face, it has to be before it can create itself.
    You suffer with same thinking disorder which you describe here.


    Edit most of your post here (and just this one) are so grammatically flawed that whatever you are trying to say comes across as a furball.
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    17 Dec '18 08:59
    @kellyjay said
    Logically speaking the universe cannot
    create itself, that falls on its face, it has to be before it can create itself.
    Using Logic you will be able to explain why not. Won't you?
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    17 Dec '18 09:04
    @kellyjay said
    Logically speaking the universe cannot
    create itself, that falls on its face, it has to be before it can create itself.
    Just base an idea, then, on the premise that the universe has always existed in some form or other, and that - logically speaking - means you don't need to imagine a creator. So just replace your "logically speaking the universe cannot create itself" premise with a different one.
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    17 Dec '18 09:463 edits
    @wolfgang59

    How can you replicate billions of years in a lab?


    That is too bad.
    And since that is a limitation on the scientific method, maybe you should add to your OP -

    Philosophy and/or Religion has a few good ideas.

    Ie.
    Nobody knows.
    But Philosophy and Religion have a few ideas.
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    17 Dec '18 09:59
    @wolfgang59 said
    I have no opinion on the subject - it is outside of anything I have read or studied.
    But however life started we expect to see it happen in our lifetimes.

    How can you replicate billions of years in a lab?
    Garbage in, garbage out. Billions of years doesn't change that.
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Dec '18 10:43
    @fmf said
    Just base an idea, then, on the premise that the universe has always existed in some form or other, and that - logically speaking - means you don't need to imagine a creator. So just replace your "logically speaking the universe cannot create itself" premise with a different one.
    Science and scripture both point to a beginning, if you want to create in your mind
    an escape from that reality your welcome too. You can come up with a millions
    reasons and justifications on why you can avoid our creator here. but they only
    lasts in this life, when we leave this place as we all will, there will be no
    justifications that will work you will be without any excuse.
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    @wolfgang59 said
    Using Logic you will be able to explain why not. Won't you?
    If there is nothing there, then it isn't there to create itself. If falls on its face.
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    17 Dec '18 11:151 edit
    @fmf said
    Just base an idea, then, on the premise that the universe has always existed in some form or other, and that - logically speaking - means you don't need to imagine a creator. So just replace your "logically speaking the universe cannot create itself" premise with a different one.
    I disagree.

    Time measures from point A to point B.

    Therefore, there must be a point A

    It was not all that long ago that scientists thought that the universe was eternal, but then they discovered the Big Bang around 1960.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    17 Dec '18 11:23
    @whodey said
    I disagree.

    Time measures from point A to point B.

    Therefore, there must be a point A

    It was not all that long ago that scientists thought that the universe was eternal, but then they discovered the Big Bang around 1960.
    My point being, if you're religious like KellyJay, just choose a premise that suits the specific belief in supernatural causality that you want to promote and propagate, and then say "logically speaking", and then state whatever you want. So, if you want to assert that, "logically speaking", there must be a point A in time, just start with the premise that time measures from point A to point B, and there you have it. You can then tell yourself you have created a "fact" that you "know", even if you haven't. Like KellyJay did.
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